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Subject: Wild fanboy speculations!!! rss

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"GAME OVER, MAN. GAME OVER!"
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Okay! Let´s get this started! Gimme all your hopes and dreams for this one! Has any of the very sparse info sparkled your imagination! Will this be the best expansion EVER!? The expansion to end all expansions!? Or have YOU gleaned enough facts from that one official posting to declare this SUCKY!? Have they even playtested the damn thing!? And will outdoor adventures be just like the indoor ones, only in "green dungeons"!?

Onward geeks! Take a stroll down the... (lowers voice, sets dramatic lighting) ...ROAD TO LEGEND!!!







Edited for sperling...
 
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Tobias Mrosek
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I think that this expansion will be a fine additon to the main game and the other expansions which are flying around here. The describtion of a overworld map and to gang up face to face with the overlord sounds quite amazing.

BUT! I don´t think that my Descent will life that long to "benefit" from that expansion. The huge amount of problems i have with the game
(endless spawns, game length, fiddly...) just keeps it away from my gamingtable. I ordered DooM the other day and i hope that it will be a lighter, faster and overall nicer Version of Descent.

Back to Descent: TRTL, it will be quite interesstig how FFG (Kevin) will introduce the new mechanics in the game and how they will work and chance the game.
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nukem999 wrote:

BUT! I don´t think that my Descent will life that long to "benefit" from that expansion. The huge amount of problems i have with the game
(endless spawns, game length, fiddly...) just keeps it away from my gamingtable.

Unfortunately, I kind of feel the same way. Recently I have found Descent to be more fun in theory than it actually is on the table. I have held off on Altar of Despair, and right now it's looking like I might be taking a break on the game altogether while I wait for Road to Legend to come out. I think it definitely sounds promising so I'm hoping that it will restore balance and competitiveness to the game, and if it does I will definitely dive in head first once again.

I realize this isn't exactly on the topic that you were hoping for, but nukem's comment hit home for me.

So I guess that counts as my "hopes and dreams" for Road to Legend: simply that Descent becomes FUN again. Other than that I don't really care that much about the specifics - it just needs to be well done, and really hit the sweet spot of what Descent is lacking right now.
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Quote:
I realize this isn't exactly on the topic that you were hoping for, but nukem's comment hit home for me.


Hey! No problem!
I too have had periods of liking Descent more in theory, but at the moment I´m on a good roll with the game, playing with a group that´s really into it, painting up the last of the figures, and having a good time! (Although I still have major issues with playing time!)

And after all, I didn´t ask for: Wild ENTHUSIASTIC fanboy speculations !
 
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Nathan Johnson
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I'll give some wild fan boy speculations since Descent kicks solid ass!

Ok--the progressive system, in of itself, is not all that interesting. Silver then gold, then diamond. While neat...not really interesting by itself because it is just stretching out the power curve for monsters and heroes. Instead of a 5 wound beast man we will eventually get 20 point (guesses here) beast men. Very fiddly and doesn't really do much other then 'stretch' the game.

Where it becomes intersing I HOPE...REALLY HOPE...

..Is that there are choices and strategic objectives on the overland map...bear with me as this will make the fiddly progressive system useful.

Hopfully: I wil be able to create quests where the heroes start in a lonely little town/village and there are some areas nearby. Perhaps a moat house that is needed to get something to advance the plot and there is a swamp nearby that houses a silver-level dragon that has a good treasure hoard but DOES NOT advance the plot really. Etc...etc...etc...another town nearby that has a better/customizable merchant list (face up treasure cards) in order to buy from.

Just in this small example you get more choices. Do you go into the moat house and start hammering away at the main plot or do you risk going to the Silver Dragons lair first to get awesome gear -OR- do you go to the next town over (while taking precious time) your Meat Tank can pick up a solid Bronze weapon that is exposed in the market deck...or something else...perhaps exploring the mountains 2 days away etc.

This level of decision making is what i am hoping for in the expansion and will give true importance to the Fiddly Progressive system.

Since i am a solid fan-boy of Decent my only small complaint of Descent is the lack of decisions (beyond the tons of tactical decision, i'm talking about goals or objectives really) to make during a 'normal' quest. Usually, quests have 1 objective and you either fail or succeed.

Hope this makes sense. Summary: Descent SHINES in the combat level tactical decision making department but is not so good on the Objective/Goal choice department. Hopefully RtL will help this out.

Other Hopes/Wishes:

There are more 'things' in the dungeon intorduced. Rolling bouders, scything blades and Dart Fields added a TON of life to the dungeons. Hopefully this will continue to be expanded on. Swinging ropes is mentioned...maybe an outdoor only thing..who knows....i don't see why you wouldn't have a swinging rope in the dungeon but i guess we will wait and see.

There will be no new plastic in this set--which i am VERY glad for. A) it gives me time to finish painting my set AND B) with the new leveling system we are essentially going to get x levels times 12 basic monsters in reference cards. So you could argue they are new monsters but just using the same plastic WHICH IS TOTALLY FINE BY ME.

Market decks and more town equipment would be great. Again, this gives more 'starting choices'.

I heard a rumor there will be some small rules changes to tone down spawning which will help length a ton. Hopefully this makes sense
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Wes Nott
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I'm most interested to see how the new "campaign game" will work out.

As is stands now, heroes start each quest weak and "power/level up" throughout the quest. Once you start a new quest, however, none of their previously acquired goodies get to be kept. I see the reasoning behind this, however, because treasure is random, and if you kept all the cool stuff you got the last time you played a quest you would just be too powerful at the start of the next quest.

Any ideas on how FFG will remedy this. Will there be some kind of new leveling/experience system? I don't think FFG wants to get gamers bogged down in a quasi-role playing system that will require pen and paper to keep track of stats and such.

I'm definitely interested in the prospect of OUTDOOR playing areas, though I think any outdoor tiles will probably just function like the indoor playing tiles. I would like to see a a big town/city map piece. Fighting off monsters in a town would be cool (perhaps a quest to defend the town?).

Still this expansion has me the most interested, as i've yet to even pick up the other two. I may pick up one now though, i'm hyped about Road to Legend...
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First off Nostromo, let me say I agree that the type of overland scenario you describe would indeed be awesome! My only concern is how this could all be handled in relation to game time. Descent is already the longest game ever (exaggerated for effect) and there is no way something like this could ever be handled in one session. I do realize that the point of having a campaign system is to extend the game over multiple sessions, but I am just curious how the state of an overland situation is going to be "saved" between sessions, if it does turn out to be anything like you describe. I'm not expecting to find the phrase "leave it set up until the next time you play" anywhere in the rules, so I am just curious what kind of solution they come up with to handle this kind of thing. It seems to me that it will still have to live on a scenario-to-scenario basis as it always has, and it seems like the overland map will likely function quite similarly to a normal quest, just outside. After all, aren't you basically describing "Descentbound?" Especially since the games already take place in the same world, I would think that they would try quite hard to avoid stepping on Runebound's toes so that both games remain distinct and relevant.

Nostromos wrote:

There will be no new plastic in this set--which i am VERY glad for. A) it gives me time to finish painting my set AND B) with the new leveling system we are essentially going to get x levels times 12 basic monsters in reference cards. So you could argue they are new monsters but just using the same plastic WHICH IS TOTALLY FINE BY ME.

While I don't mind the fact in itself that no minis are going to be included, I am a little hesitant because of the rumoured addition of allies for hire (if this hasn't already been abandoned) and the OL avatars (which seem to have evolved into lieutenants now?). I can't really see either of these things being all that cool unless they are represented by their own (unique) minis. Tokens, chits, or otherwise "substitute" minis representing these kinds of characters would not really cut it for me given the intense mini-driven nature of the game.
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Nathan Johnson
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Quote:
...and there is no way something like this could ever be handled in one session...but I am just curious how the state of an overland situation is going to be "saved" between sessions...


Yup, this would have to be over the course of several game session which, i think is the whole point of RtL. I could be wrong of course. And, like you, i totaly agree, i will be curious as to how they are going to 'save' sessions. Characters? Status of the Overland Map? OL status? Good point...it could be a pain. Unless there is a new character building system and OL building system. So when you 'finish' a session you just remember what level you are at and you can build from scratch the next game. That would be the easy solution or for the hardcore out there you can 'save' between sessions and write everything down. Hmmm...good point.


Quote:
I am a little hesitant because of the rumoured addition of allies for hire (if this hasn't already been abandoned) and the OL avatars (which seem to have evolved into lieutenants now?). I can't really see either of these things being all that cool unless they are represented by their own (unique) minis. Tokens, chits, or otherwise "substitute" minis representing these kinds of characters would not really cut it for me given the intense mini-driven nature of the game.


I actually agree with you on the lietenants and Avatars...but hench men, not sure if i can if i have plastic. We already have tokens for familiars and i bet all a Henchman is, is a dumbed down hero or beefed up familiar. But i totally agree on the Lietenants and Avatars.
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Not that I still play RPGs, but I'm having a hard time understanding why one woudnt just buy some d20 books and play an RPG campaign!! Much richer, better detail in the infinite supply of source material, and rules that cover everything conceivable in play! I like Descent, but I dont think at all that I will go the "campaign" route. It is what it is, and its good at that -- a short, tactical dungeon crawl, that opposes the "DM" to the players for a single session.
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Nathan Johnson
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Quote:
Not that I still play RPGs, but I'm having a hard time understanding why one woudnt just buy some d20 books and play an RPG campaign!! Much richer, better detail in the infinite supply of source material, and rules that cover everything conceivable in play! I like Descent, but I dont think at all that I will go the "campaign" route. It is what it is, and its good at that -- a short, tactical dungeon crawl, that opposes the "DM" to the players for a single session.


Great Question!

I actually did play DnD 3.5 / D20 for a couple years there. The major reasons why I prefer Descent over D20 is as follows:

1) I just don't have the time to commit to a D20 campaign. With work/family I just don't have the time. It take a good chunk of time to commit to a 'group' or campaign. If i miss a gaming night at board game night...who cares.

2) D20 TAKES FOREVER. People complain about Descent...my God! You can't even get through 1 or 2 basic encounters within 4 hours in DnD. Slow, slow, slow. Which means you have to play more, more, more if you want to get through a campaign within 6 months to a year.

3) I like board gaming better.

4) When you play with board gamers and hang out with that 'crowd' you will find people that will play Descent. Essentially Gamers are easier to find as Descent is more accessible and more cross over allowed...where i can't think of 1 person in the several board game groups i go to that would ever consider a DnD campaign...but many would love to play Descent every once in awhile.

5) Flakes. So hard to keep a good gaming group going for D20 stuff. People flake or leave you hanging or come and go. Descent it doesn't matter...play with who is available at that moment.

6) DnD is going the way of Board gaming anyways. First 3.0/3.5 with minis forced on you...just wait for 4th edition...take a look at Star Wars Saga edition (D20) coming out next month...pretty much simplified, streamlined...Board game anyone?

7) DnD is unbalanced. People complain of Descent being unbalanced. D20 is terrible...remember the Drow, Cleric, Archer build that could destroy anything.

I could keep going on but really Descent and D20 are 2 different beasts.

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Tobias Mrosek
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Now all the above that Nostromos said is very true to me.
It´s also the main reason why i started playing Descent and forget about D&D, DSA and such things. It´s just a hassle to get a DnDgame REALLY going. But as i stated in my first comment, Descent shoots for, me, over the idea of a Boardgame as it is to long, boring and to many bits for what it really is. A Hack n´Slay fest
BTW, the original Quests in the Game plus its expansions are kinda lengthy, not that interesting and lend them self not really to a replay.
That conclusion comes from reading the neat doomquests.
But here i´m driving off-topic again, sry but i just tried to get as much as possible out of descent but it just won´t let me love it

Well hope you guys will enjoy it, and even more with a great expansion like The Road to Legend
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Regarding the campaign rules, I can easily see how people who think Descent plays too long as it is, wouldn´t be eagerly awaiting an expansion that drags it out for months!!! But the idea of slowly advancing a character over time, seems like a nice addition to the experience to me! I just hope it won´t be a slightly more advanced version of the current resetting-your-character-after-every-game system.
 
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I predict Tuck Boxes to keep your heroes, equipment and skills between games.
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John Harley
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Character progression as opposed to equipment progression would be cool, however this game needs to be shorter in the worst way.

I literally can not get time to put this game on the table ever.

I bought the expand -- never played!
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Nathan Johnson
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In Regards to Game Length.

I think we all can agree it is a long game. Our group does not have too many issues here as we keep the table talk and spawns in check so our games only last 2-3 hours for a BIG dungeon. Still...the reason why i think the campaign may fix this for most people is due to the way you can create a campaign.

You can build a campaign in such a way that you have SMALL 1 hour max encouters, when pieced together make a grander campaign. That is probably what i will be doing for my first homemade campaign.

They are going to have Swamps and Forests in addition to the dungeons. I plan on getting some of those D20 Fantastic locations sets so you can have single encounters as well.
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Nostromos wrote:


They are going to have Swamps and Forests in addition to the dungeons. I plan on getting some of those D20 Fantastic locations sets so you can have single encounters as well.


From where do you get the swamp info? Sounds cool, but I don´t remember this feature mentioned in the press release...
That aside, the idea of building some nice outdoor terrain has got me a bit excited too, anyways I´m looking for an excuse to buy the new plastic trees comming out for Warhammer next month!

By the way, I like your idea about small encounters as part of the campaign! Not every game session has to be about saving the entire world in one go!
 
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jtspecial wrote:

From where do you get the swamp info? Sounds cool, but I don´t remember this feature mentioned in the press release...


I think Nathan is refering to his "first homemade campaign". Something entirely different than the Road to Legend.
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BookandGame wrote:
jtspecial wrote:

From where do you get the swamp info? Sounds cool, but I don´t remember this feature mentioned in the press release...


I think Nathan is refering to his "first homemade campaign". Something entirely different than the Road to Legend.


Could be, but still, he says "THEY are going to have ..." So I think my question still stands.
 
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Nathan Johnson
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It is mentioned under the description of Road to Legend on the FFG page.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/descent_va41.html

Read the description part not the bullets. It talks about forests and swamps AND Kevin has confirmed there will be an UNGODLY amount of card board (i assume map pieces mostly) in this expansion.
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Nostromos wrote:


Read the description part not the bullets. It talks about forests and swamps AND Kevin has confirmed there will be an UNGODLY amount of card board (i assume map pieces mostly) in this expansion.


Ah, that´s it! I see the descriptive part of games like this as colortext, fiction. With the purpose of generating excitement, more than information...
So until it reaches the facts box, I´m not entirely convinced. But I´m excited about the ungodly amounts of card board mentioned, and hope that some swamps will be included with the other outdoor terrain!
I hope you´re right and I´m being too cautious/suspicious here!
 
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Anders Gabrielsson
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Regarding game lenght, in the other thread it is mentioned that each dungeon will be broken up into smaller parts ("levels"), each of which should take about an hour to play and that it will be possible to "pause" the game after each such level.

Provided you play with pretty much the same group regularly, and that group is willing to break up the game this way, that should solve most problems with game length.
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Yes, and - just making a wild guess here - perhaps the "sheltering trees" also mentioned are some kind of "save points" where you can break off a session and continue on some other day? Like setting up camp for the night under a sheltering tree.
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It's getting closer! I can't wait. I was hoping there would be new characters in this one, but it doesn't appear there will be. However, it seems that the old characters will take on new life with new skills, the silver and gold dice, and added character growth.

I hope there is a system to make your own character. (just a dream, I know) I also hope that the Overlord avatar is actually cool and not just a lame way to make a stronger boss. Maybe the overlord will be one of the unused characters? That would be interesting.

My last dream is that you could play this game in 1-2 hours, even if that means some sort of save that you can replay the next time.
 
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I read somewhere that there will be random dungeons and that each dungeon will be smaller so that the game moves quicker.
Also the way I read the equipment is going to be handled from quest to quest is you start with bronze quests eventually after around 3 quests move to silver ones then after 3 more gold ones then eventually fight the overlords avatar.

If the random dungeons are really there that would be great. Maybe a card deck that tells you what the next room behind the door looks like. I'm skeptical that it will be there but if so I'd be up for it. I might even create a deck of cards that have that if they don't do it.
 
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CUTHALI0N wrote:
First off Nostromo, let me say I agree that the type of overland scenario you describe would indeed be awesome! My only concern is how this could all be handled in relation to game time. Descent is already the longest game ever (exaggerated for effect) and there is no way something like this could ever be handled in one session. I do realize that the point of having a campaign system is to extend the game over multiple sessions, but I am just curious how the state of an overland situation is going to be "saved" between sessions, if it does turn out to be anything like you describe. I'm not expecting to find the phrase "leave it set up until the next time you play" anywhere in the rules, so I am just curious what kind of solution they come up with to handle this kind of thing. It seems to me that it will still have to live on a scenario-to-scenario basis as it always has, and it seems like the overland map will likely function quite similarly to a normal quest, just outside. After all, aren't you basically describing "Descentbound?" Especially since the games already take place in the same world, I would think that they would try quite hard to avoid stepping on Runebound's toes so that both games remain distinct and relevant.

Nostromos wrote:

There will be no new plastic in this set--which i am VERY glad for. A) it gives me time to finish painting my set AND B) with the new leveling system we are essentially going to get x levels times 12 basic monsters in reference cards. So you could argue they are new monsters but just using the same plastic WHICH IS TOTALLY FINE BY ME.

While I don't mind the fact in itself that no minis are going to be included, I am a little hesitant because of the rumoured addition of allies for hire (if this hasn't already been abandoned) and the OL avatars (which seem to have evolved into lieutenants now?). I can't really see either of these things being all that cool unless they are represented by their own (unique) minis. Tokens, chits, or otherwise "substitute" minis representing these kinds of characters would not really cut it for me given the intense mini-driven nature of the game.


As I understand it, lieutenants are not the same as the overlord avatar. Lieutenants are, I believe, just powerful versions of the monsters we already have (a level above "master", perhaps)? The overlord avatar will also be represented by one of the already existing minis, but the overlord's powers will change depending on which mini he chooses. For example, if the overlord turns out to be a beastman then perhaps he can collect more threat during the game. Or if he is a sorceror he can play Event cards cheaper, and so on.

The only thing I can think of in regards to allies for hire without new plastic is that you can hire the other heroes to work for you!
 
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