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Sergeants Miniatures Game: Day of Days» Forums » Rules

Subject: SHOW Update - Final Stretch rss

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Jeffery McCulloch
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I wrote a lengthy post on the current state of SHOW, and forgot to select a forum, so off to the bit bucket it went. So...

I want to give you a brief update on the status of the SHOW rules. I have the draft and am working like a fiend on getting them completed and sent to layout and printing. There are several holes to fill due to findings in play-test, issues in relation to current systems, and just some plain old fleshing out of existing text. There are some concepts tied directly to Urban and X-Terrain that need explaining. In short, we're not there, yet. On the bright side, it looks like we may be done this month.

In related news: SMG will be updated to include Urban and X-Terrain in the same book, along with updates to any current systems. SDD will be updated also. I expect the update to be released at the same time as SHOW.

I am pressing for a total SHOW release date no later than early November. Sooner the better. All vehicle modules are done for the first wave. It looks like all of the first wave models are done as well, though I need to double-check.

So, the onus is on me to get the rules in tip-top shape. I'm currently working on the SHOOT action and arranging the rules to match the SMG format.

I'll keep this thread open for updates on progress. Please post any comments and concerns you may have here.

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Martin Gallo
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Thanks for the update. I look forward to someday getting to play SHOW.
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Jeffery McCulloch
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gamer1701d wrote:
Thank you for the update.

When you say that SMG will be updated to include Urban and X-Terrain in the same book does that mean a SMG version 3 rulebook will be available for download soon? Can people order hardcopy's of this rulebook too?


Yes and, tentatively, yes.
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Jeffery McCulloch
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I added two more pages for the SHOOT action, with still more coming. Whew!
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Martin Gallo
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I helped get from V1 to V2 and would be happy to be another set of eyes for V3.
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Mayor Jim
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X Terrain is getting updated...again? Please take your time getting the rules right, the game is late anyway.
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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It is getting added to the SMG rules. If it needs updating, then it will be updated. If you have specific issues with the X-Terrain rules as they currently stand, let me know. You can start a different thread, which would be very helpful, or message me.
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Chris Ganshaw
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I got to tell you I am a little confused. I could have sworn that the Facebook page had said SHOW was ready, except for the decal issue. Once that was resolved, SHOW would ship. I went to check my memory on the Facebook page, but got a message it did not exist?

Now, I am hearing that the rules are not finished? What happened the copies being sent to SDD backers the first week on Aug?

I am a huge fan of the system, but find this update VERY disconcerting!!
 
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Martin Gallo
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I think that readiness announcement was posted here on BGG.

I have mentioned many times how much I enjoy this game. I truly love this game. I do have to shake my head at the communications from LBG, inconsistent and irregular. I keep giving them money and will give them more money in the future, though, because I really like this game. I do not believe that withholding my money as a protest will make things better. I am certain that my giving them money has made the game better (been around since V1 and V2 is an improvement).
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Mayor Jim
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Ver. 2 is an improvement (since I helped)...but their communication and ability to stick to advertised timelines is...problematic.
 
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Greg
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Well, I just got into Halo Ground Command by Spartan Games. 15mm pewter minis as well as resin vehicle and terrain pieces.

Sure there is a lot of work in assembly aND painting, but this is going to be something that will severely compete with my gaming dollars, as it's not cheap either.

So while I do love SMG, their delays and lack of communication aren't helping. In fact, had I had my vehicles in June or July as originally intended, and they kept their word about other vehicle releases during the following months, I may have not gotten into Halo Ground Command because I would have gotten new vehicles to give me something new and shiny. In fact, I'm trying to sell my Sails of Glory base set still in shrink to get more money for Halo, where it could have gone towards SMG.

Too bad really.
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Stephen Meyers
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But it's not WWII!

It's Halo.

Not for me!!!
 
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Greg
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Constantinople wrote:


But it's not WWII!

It's Halo.

Not for me!!!


It could be Halo, American Civil War, Napoleonics, it could be X-Wing or Sails of Glory. The point, is that long delays and bad communication can allow people to get into other systems that will complete with SMG for hobby dollars.
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Mayor Jim
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Hahma wrote:
Constantinople wrote:


But it's not WWII!

It's Halo.

Not for me!!!


It could be Halo, American Civil War, Napoleonics, it could be X-Wing or Sails of Glory. The point, is that long delays and bad communication can allow people to get into other systems that will complete with SMG for hobby dollars.

Greg...spot on!
 
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Brian
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"Hey, Joe! Got any live ones!?", (but Joe had no grenades). The tank rumbled nearer. Johnny stuffed explosives into his gloves, burrowed deep in the muck and waited; then deftly slapped them into a greasy tread axle and spun for cover; snap-firing...
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Honestly, I don't think vehicles belong in the scale of the game anyway but I've also been conditioned to expect full system rules integration to seriously lag any new product output. It is what it is at this point.

OTOH, LBG is great at publishing new products for users to decide what to do with. Fine if you want a game to finish yourself and constantly house rule but that isn't for me. Most miniature gamers don't seem to be bothered by that though, so there really isn't much incentive for LBG to crack the whip on actually finishing the most difficult part of the job (rules) once they have your money. Perhaps in a few years the game system will be where I thought it would already be a few years ago.

I admit that due to all of this I've siphoned my miniature investment money into Dust Tactics because it has simply taken LBG too long to publish fully integrated, completely comprehensive rules for all of their prodigious expansion material (most of which I already own and do not use because one is forced to search an awful lot of threads to get a better understanding for how to integrate it all).

Anyway, miniature gamers do not care, nor do their buddies that agree to play by consensus but for other more board gamer types that are used to combat commander type rulebooks (one of the best out there) there is a frustrating lack of focus from LBG responsible for this situation and my opinion is that the original game probably should have been released much later (after at least two more years of playtesting X-terrain, buildings, specialist troops, tactics modules/teams and even vehicles, if that was the direction originally desired).

Basically, I like to invest in game products that are already finished to a higher standard, games without tedious thread searching as they add expansion material. Unfortunately, at a certain point a monetary boycott against buying more confusion seemed necessary until all the rules are exhaustively tightened completely down.

If there is a football analogy here then SMG feels like the Detroit Lions because there is always next year and that hopeful draft pick to finally fix the franchise. But the desired result ultimately disappoints many fans when the next year concludes and the latest highly talked about acquisition somehow leaves you shaking your head yet again. SMG sure is pretty and expensive though (which reminds me, the Lions should have some cheerleaders but will never be able to afford them).
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Mayor Jim
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Actually, LBG is more like the Cleveland Browns than the Lions gulp
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Brian
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"Hey, Joe! Got any live ones!?", (but Joe had no grenades). The tank rumbled nearer. Johnny stuffed explosives into his gloves, burrowed deep in the muck and waited; then deftly slapped them into a greasy tread axle and spun for cover; snap-firing...
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Yeah, either way. If the critique sounds too harsh, I should say that I'm mainly referring to the rules part of the system and I spent a lot on this game so occasionally I donate another two cents once in a while to bemoan a general lack of rules progress.

Best of luck to everyone involved in the latest iteration of rules roundup. Yeee-haw!!!
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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R M Chair General wrote:
Yeah, either way. If the critique sounds too harsh, I should say that I'm mainly referring to the rules part of the system and I spent a lot on this game so occasionally I donate another two cents once in a while to bemoan a general lack of rules progress.

Best of luck to everyone involved in the latest iteration of rules roundup. Yeee-haw!!!


I hear you. I think we can all agree that the rules are the weak link in all this. That is why I've taken on this project. There are many, many cross references I need to make across all current printed documents so I don't miss anything.
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Update...

So far I have doubled the word count and it continues to grow. Since SHOW needs to be playable out of the box for both SMG and SDD, there is a lot of cross-checking, validation, and compilation that needs to be done. I am making progress and hope to be done this week.
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Mayor Jim
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skippykaos wrote:
Update...

So far I have doubled the word count and it continues to grow. Since SHOW needs to be playable out of the box for both SMG and SDD, there is a lot of cross-checking, validation, and compilation that needs to be done. I am making progress and hope to be done this week.

Lock the doors, shut down your phone, stock up on food and water, pull the blinds down...and get 'er done gulp
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Update...

Making good progress. I think the key elements are nearly done. I'll be working on artillery, incendiaries, radios, and mines/booby-traps next.

Also, if you guys have anything at all that you feel needs to be addressed in the SMG/SDD rules, now's the time to speak up.

Back to it...
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Jason Williams
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Jeffery

I participated in the playtest Jeff ran at his house and again at Historicon. I would be more than willing to be a second set of eyes and provide feedback from the playtest and Historicon in case it got lost in the shuffle.
 
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Mayor Jim
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skippykaos wrote:
Update...

Making good progress. I think the key elements are nearly done. I'll be working on artillery, incendiaries, radios, and mines/booby-traps next.

Also, if you guys have anything at all that you feel needs to be addressed in the SMG/SDD rules, now's the time to speak up.

Back to it...

Well, here's one that might need some clarification. Side A has a soldier in an X terrain building. Per the rules, he occupies the whole building and can fire from anywhere. Side B moves into the building to perform CC combat...but his move takes to a half inch into the building. Can side B perform CC? Or can side A place his trooper just out of range of side B's man?
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Jeffery McCulloch
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MayorJim wrote:
Well, here's one that might need some clarification. Side A has a soldier in an X terrain building. Per the rules, he occupies the whole building and can fire from anywhere. Side B moves into the building to perform CC combat...but his move takes to a half inch into the building. Can side B perform CC? Or can side A place his trooper just out of range of side B's man?


That's a good one. Unless you have some feel for how SDD works, and specifically Urban, the mechanic will be confusing. Yes, it needs to be rewritten to clarify. Within a given room on a given level, movement is no longer measured. Neither is shooting within that space. You are always either "in" or "out". So B is "in" the building. You always have to Fight. Everyone in the space can perform a simultaneous Shoot action using Short range and the building's printed Shoot modifier. Then the Fight occurs. There is no Combat Contact bit where bases have to touch and all that. Everybody fights everybody.

The huge issue is the measuring bit. Within a building space ("room" in Urban speak) all measuring goes out the window.

Got it, and will fix it. Note that in SHOW, turrets, hulls, and cabins (where passengers sit) are treated like Urban "rooms". So this concept applies to vehicles, X-Terrain, and Urban. Also a good reason they should all reside in the same book.
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Todd
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So even with the measured movement of SMG, we treat buildings as areas?

Todd
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