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Subject: I want to like this game... rss

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Carl Schnurr
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Hey all, my family and I love playing coop games but are really struggling with this one. We've played 4x three-player games on training mode and haven't come anywhere close to winning. Three of the games we didn't even get half way, and the best one we had the five face up draw cards left. Normally, we beat the easy mode in coop games the first or second time and quickly move up to standard mode or harder.

Clearly, something just isn't clicking. I've read and re-read the rules, watched video explanations and have confirmed we're playing correctly. We play as fast as we can, we collaborate to minimize unused dice, and we try to have compatible cards.

But we still don't get anywhere. At this point, we're willing to try a few more games but it honestly feels broken at this point. Typically, our problem is that one person gets locked and cannot take any dice for an extended time, resulting in no one being able to make forward progress because we always have one unused die (if not two). In fact, in three of our four games one player (a different player each time) was stuck on their first two bombs for almost the entire game--they only completed a single bomb the entire game.

Anyone had a similar experience and figured a way to win? I want to like this game but are frustrated by not coming close in the easiest mode possible.

Thanks for any help you can give,
-Carl
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Dacula
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You may want yo make sure you are understanding the rules. I had no issue in a three player game winning on training. I think we won on our second game. We took a few games to win on standard. Three players is easier than two player when you have to use two die per player. I say we win half the time on standard. We have only had the game a couple weeks so we haven't tried anything higher. It is a fun game, easy to teach, and easy to get to the table as a filler because of the quick play. Give it some time. Enjoy!!
 
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Byron Campbell
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Make sure you are rerolling each die only once before moving on. This was a rules mistake I made; I was rerolling the die over and over until it could be used, removing a matching die each time, sometimes resulting in clearing out an entire card.

Also, make sure you are playing correctly that once a bomb is completed, it can't be touched.

Finally, pay attention to the bombs' difficulty levels. You should have a mix of easy and hard in front of each player at all times.

I agree that on training, you should be winning by now.
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Brian Aldrich
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I can definitely see how it would be intense for 2 or more players. Personally I bought the game so I could play it solo or with my wife. I love playing this game by myself as it's a nice workout for the brain. Obviously you bought it to play with your family and I see where you are coming from.

Maybe try a couple games without the timer? If you act like you are under pressure without the timer you might better understand how each other works and then you can turn the timer on.
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fortheloveofdice
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I love this game solo. It is hard though! In 50 plays I haven't beaten standard very many times and I often lose on training level still. If I'm tired or have had a beer I just stick with training.

Multiplayer I find the problem is that one player has the potential to be bossy if they see solutions - and it is still really hard!

There is definitely a decent amount of strategy but if the game is too punishing you might not be able to learn it easily.

Some ideas while learning? Remove the timer (then maybe put it back with more time?). Make sure you are talking about who wants what and why. Remove the '4' cards.

Choosing which die to re-roll is important. If you don't have a certain colour on any cards, leave that coloured die to re-roll. Or if there is a hard-to-find die on a card, like it has to be a blue 4, try not to re-roll blue.

Also placement - often place a number match before a colour match because colour matches are easier to come by - unless several of that colour are out, especially on hard to complete cards. If you're going to have to re-roll a red die, try to cover up red dice in stacks, or finish one of the cards with a red die so it will be locked and can't lose dice.

As far as one person getting locked, they should lose whatever they placed to get them into a bad situation pretty quickly. Or they are stuck on a really hard card? So I say remove the 4's or at least the 4's you really struggle with. By the time you add them back you'll have gotten better at the game.

You could also remove a few cards from the starting deck. This is a very different game than most coops. And some games are just generally difficult even on the easiest levels. Adjust the game so it is easier to win or just enjoy looking at how close you got this time compared to last time.

Really, it's about how much fun you're having not whether you can beat the number of cards a rule writer put in a rule book. That said, I think some of the things in this thread might help you both get better and have more fun. Like I said it is way different than other coops, so you can't compare yourself to how you do with other ones.

After 50 games I'm having a blast but still on training-to-normal level depending on the day. It's hard but fun.
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Jeff M.
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For an easier time, play with only 1, 2, and 3 point cards (i.e., remove the cards worth 4 and 6 points). So you will have 18 cards (worth 1-3 points each), deal 2 cards to each player, deal 5 to the center, and then shuffle in 6 Fuse cards for the play-deck. This should put the game at a family-friendly difficulty level that you're looking for. If it is still too difficult, reduce or remove the Fuse cards.
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Nick McClure
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Our group of three has done okay once we got use to it, though I'd still say we lose over half the standard difficultly games. Here are some tricks we use to help:

1. Concentrate on one of your cards if possible, and only place dice on your other card if that's the only option you have. This keeps the cards cycling, which is the key to winning.

2. If you have a card that requires something very specific (like you can only use a yellow 1), don't let someone else take it if it comes up. It's good to cooperate and compromise sometimes, but those rare dice are hard to come by and you might not get another shot. Know when to be greedy and when to be generous.

3. Try to only have one hard card (3, 4 or 6) and one easy card (1 or 2). If you have too many easy ones you are hurting your team because you can only take one die every roll, and if you have two hard ones you're much more likely to have multiple rounds where you can't take anything.

4. Concentrate on what YOU need, and don't worry about everyone else. If you try to keep everyone's needs in your head you'll go crazy with AP.

5. Once you get down to the last few cards in the center, give priority to the people with the easy cards, unless you have a lot of time to spare or you're very close to completing a more difficult card. Remember, you don't have to finish all of the cards in front of you (unless you're playing insane mode). You just have to clear the middle. At the end of the game, everyone will likely have two bombs in front of them, unless multiple people finish a card on their last turn.

Sometimes, it's just the luck of the draw/roll. We've had several games that seemed impossible no matter what we did. Keep at it and you will win eventually!
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Kane Klenko
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fortheloveofdice wrote:

Really, it's about how much fun you're having not whether you can beat the number of cards a rule writer put in a rule book.


As the writer of the rules in this rulebook, I have to say I agree. The rules were written based on a certain number of tests over a certain period of time. I understand that they won't work for everybody...they were just numbers set off of those tests. A couple things:

- Remove the Fuse cards completely.

- There are also alternative setups in the back of the rules that can allow you to make it even easier or harder based on your group. Just set up the deck with more lower level cards than higher levels. Or if you still want a fairly random mix, remove several of the level 4s, then shuffle everything together and deal the cards. The numbers are there for a few reasons, but one of them is to allow you to adjust the deck to your group.


There have been a lot of good suggestions here already for ways to make it easier, and also good strategy tips, so I'll leave it at that. Again, it's all about having fun, so adjust the deck in the way that best fits your group.

Hope that helps!
Kane
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Carl Schnurr
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Thanks for all the great suggestions and the words of encouragement! We will definitely give it another go using them and tweak things until we find the fun for our family. I may give it a go solo as well to try various strategies.

Thanks, BGG community and Fuse rules writer!
-Carl
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Scott Gaeta
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We also have a Fuse "Wild Die" releasing in the Santa's Renegade's promo box this holiday. Here's some more info on that:

http://www.renegadegamestudios.com/news/2016/9/12/santas-ren...

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Brandon M
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“Games give you a chance to excel, and if you're playing in good company you don't even mind if you lose because you had the enjoyment of the company during the course of the game.” ― Gary Gygax
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Scott Gaeta wrote:
We also have a Fuse "Wild Die" releasing in the Santa's Renegade's promo box this holiday. Here's some more info on that:

http://www.renegadegamestudios.com/news/2016/9/12/santas-ren...



Will those promos be made available through any other, more, "direct to consumer" method?
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Josh Trumbo
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A few other things to note (sorry if they were covered above and I missed them):

Only remove one die per player when re-rolling an unused die or resolving a FUSE card

Watch what cards you take! In addition to keeping an eye on the difficulty number, don't take a card that requires the same dice as the other bombs everyone is currently working on. i.e. if there are several cards out which require black dice, try not to take another one that requires black dice (especially if they form the base of a pyramid or stack). If everyone needs threes, you're going to have a lot of unused dice setting you back.

Work together but be decisive-- the main problem I encounter when playing with new people is that everyone wants to discuss who can use which dice the best. Sometimes you need to claim a die first and take it unless someone else says they really need it.

Don't wait to talk until the dice are rolled. If there's something specific you need, say so (I NEED a green two!). If you can use anything, say that (I'd love a blue die but can use anything!). The more information you all have, the easier it is to grab dice.

Don't get discouraged! The more you play, the more familiar with the cards you'll become and the easier it will be to work through the stack. And as mentioned above, enjoying the game is the most important part so don't be afraid to shorten the stack, remove difficult cards, or remove FUSE cards, etc.
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