Darth Hidious
Singapore
flag msg tools
If i finally understand things right, modifiers to OP FP will be

+1 ....adjacent.......per rule 9.0
+3......adjacent..................as in PAC
+4.......target moving in open....as in PAC
+1......if I spend a CP....per rule 9.0

Is this correct?
I apologise for beating this drum too often already, but I need your clear input.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Gloor
Switzerland
Ostermundigen
Bern
flag msg tools
The statement below is false.
badge
The statement above is correct.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Two things:

* You can only Op Fire (not Final Op Fire) If the unit is unused or marked as Op Fire:
=> If it is unused, your calculations are correct.
=> If it is marked as Op Fire, you'll get +1 for that.
=> if it isn't unused or marked as Op Fire, you can't Op Fire, but you can Final Op Fire against anybody who's coming adjacent (with an additional modifier of -2 from the PAC, and of course only if the unit passes its MC).

* The +1 modifications from the target being adjacent, CP spending and being marked as Op Fire, together can't raise Proficient FP above regular FP.

So if the Soviet unit has FP 4/1 and gets all three +1s (it's marked as Op Fire, target is adjacent and a CP is spent), it'll get to roll against 1+1+1+1+3+4=11. But if a German 6/5 unit was in the same situation, its Proficient FP of 5 would only get raised to 6 by the three +1s, and then it would get the +3+4 from the PAC; resulting in a roll against 6+3+4=13.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darth Hidious
Singapore
flag msg tools
Wonderful
Thank you very much.
I suppose, a lot of my confusion is down to an innate discomfort,to such high parameters.
I am more used to rolling only up to (d10) 4 or 5 for a result, and not having a d10 result 1-9 , or even 1-20, as a strike.

The very high firepower scores,>10,often makes rolling a die a formality - almost no survival, just how badly you are going to be burnt.
That's war, I suppose.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Evans
United Kingdom
St Ives
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
You always have to roll because a natural roll of 10 is a miss regardless of modifiers.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Krohn
United States
New York
flag msg tools
designer
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
badge
Ahhh....my misspent youth...
Avatar
mb
Quote:
The very high firepower scores,>10,often makes rolling a die a formality - almost no survival, just how badly you are going to be burnt.


And there is a vast difference between a simple Suppression and casualties.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Doug Kewley
United States
Mandeville
Louisiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Is the +3 adjacency modifier only for when you are firing as your action during your phase and all fires that use the proficiency fire power value (Assault, Op and Final) just get +1 (up to the original FP value?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Evans
United Kingdom
St Ives
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
No, +3 is always applicable if you're adjacent regardless of what type of fire it is.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Doug Kewley
United States
Mandeville
Louisiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How does that square with rule 9.0 which reads:

Quote:
The Proficient FP may be increased by one for each of the
following cases:
• If the target unit is adjacent.
• If the firing unit is marked as Op Fire.
• The player spends a CP


This rule for opportunity fire pretty definitely says the proficient firepower is increased by 1 for an adjacent target. The player aid card also says:

Quote:
Assault Fire, Op Fire, & Final Op Fire use Prof. Firepower.

• Each of these increases the Proficient Firepower by 1 (but
not greater than the Normal Firepower):

• Op Firing at an Adjacent Unit
• Op Firing while marked as Op Fire
• Spending one (& only one) allowed Command Point


Are yo saying that first adjacency increases proficiency firepower by +1 up to the original firepower, and then increases it again for an additional +3?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Evans
United Kingdom
St Ives
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Yep, and another +4 if they were moving in open as well for example. Only those three +1's from the PAC are limited in how much they can increase the Proficient Firepower. After you've limited them if required you then add on the other modifiers like being adjacent or moving in the open.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Doug Kewley
United States
Mandeville
Louisiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just to be sure I am understanding you, are you saying that an American parachute team, with a 6/5 firepower, shooting opportunity fire at an adjacent German infantry unit, would receive a +1 to its proficiency firepower (which would then be maxed out at 6) and then a +3 for adjacency on top of the PF +1 for a total of 9(5+1+3), not considering any other modifiers?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Doug Kewley
United States
Mandeville
Louisiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
All right. I get it now, having looked at other similar questions and answers. It just seems a little strange to me that a unit firing op fire would get a higher benefit from adjacency (a potential total of +4) than would a unit simply firing in its own phase when it would only get +3.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Evans
United Kingdom
St Ives
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Well if you think about it in OP-fire the unit you're targeting is moving right in front of you giving you plenty of chances to hit them where as when targeting a static enemy they're considered to be hugging the ground and any cover they can find in their hex and not just standing there.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Skinner
United States
Framingham
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Think of it as just removing some of the penalty for using Proficient Fire, which is lower than normal. That's why those bonuses can't take firepower higher than normal. So it isn't that they get a bigger bonus, but that the adjacent case removes some of the Proficient Fire penalty.

andy
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Krohn
United States
New York
flag msg tools
designer
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
badge
Ahhh....my misspent youth...
Avatar
mb
The concept of having a Proficient Firepower is that a unit is less effective when asked to do something difficult. Just shooting at a target under orders is the baseline. It is the easiest and uses the Normal Firepower. Any military unit can do that.

However, to fire at a moving target, a target of opportunity as it were, is more difficult and therefore uses the Proficient Firepower. A lot is going on there:

- Do they even see that target of opportunity?
- Are they deployed in such a way to take advantage of that opportunity?
- Does their squad leadership have other priorities?

Etc.

So, you must have noticed by now that some units are punished more harshly than others. An American paratrooper squad has their FP drop 1, a first line German squad has their FP drop by 2, and a Russian squad has their FP drop by 3. This is because of their training.

However, there are some things that make it easier and these are the three things that would mitigate some of that difficulty:

- Adjacency - a unit is far more likely to respond with all of its FP against a near by threat.
- Op Fire - being ordered to hold your fire and look for a target of opportunity.
- Command Point - Abstractly expending your leadership ability to make sure that happens.

So, with all three of these things, a Russian squad will be brought up to its normal FP when Op Firing. An American 101st Airborne squad only needs one of them. Anything extra, can't make them better than they were to begin with - hence it is capped at their normal FP.

Once that is done, we know what FP the squad is using. At that point, we add the modifiers for terrain and situations - including the whopping +3 adjacent and +4 moving in the open.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Doug Kewley
United States
Mandeville
Louisiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
An excellent response. Thank you. I have been playing wargames since 1964, including many tactical games over the decades. This series is a refreshing take on the genre.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.