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Subject: Love Imperial and Imperial 2030...think this is a good fit rss

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Christopher Halbower
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Our group loves Imperial 2030 (and Imperial too). I think Antike would be a great fit. As I was researching this, I see there is an Antike II also. Can someone help me out? Is Antike II just better?
 
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Mark Bigney
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Antike II introduced some balance changes to the technologies, made military conquest simpler, and has some neutral military targets to open up the map a bit. I prefer Antike II, but I would certainly not pass on the first if that was what was available.
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Mark Bigney
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A quick note, though, that Antike and Imperial are extremely different games despite their superficial similarity and shared use of the rondel.
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Christopher Halbower
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Thanks for the quick responses.

The allure of Imperial is the low randomness, deterministic combat along with a good mix of tactics and strategy. The rondel really gives you a strong tactical control and the low randomness gives you strong strategic control. As such, I concluded we would love Antike.
 
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David Jones
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I've had some weird experiences with Antike. Many people in my group love Imperial and about half liked Navegador. Many also enjoy 4X/Civ builder type games, so I would expect Antike to do well. Overall its received only a lukewarm response. I think its good game and wish I could play it more. I don't know if its just a weird quirk that our group doesn't get into it or it may just be that we have too many other games we own as a group that others would rather play.
 
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Mark Bigney
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Antike definitely has a lot less fighting than Imperial or even other civ-type games. It's similar to Scythe in that regard.
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David Jones
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Gyges wrote:
Antike definitely has a lot less fighting than Imperial or even other civ-type games. It's similar to Scythe in that regard.


Going off topic a bit...

I had to laugh at your response because as I was typing that post up I was starting to realize the similarities between Antike and Scythe. I had my first play of Scythe yesterday and it is a game that I am a bit lukewarm about and really don't get the hype behind it. I have to admit that it is a very well designed game, but it really felt like all of us were doing our own little thing. The interaction was really minimal and I walked away feeling like it was just a contest to see who could build their point engine the fastest. To be a bit more fair, it was a 3P game and I can see where Scythe would need four or five people before it really starts to shine. Nonetheless, I sometimes think the gaming community gets a little too excited about games with asymmetric setups. To be fair (and somewhat on topic) I have to admit that Antike can also suffer from the mutli-player solitaire syndrome, but somehow I feel like there is a bit more interaction in Antike. The rondel also creates a timing and decision making element that (IMHO) Scythe is lacking. (Final caveat here: I've only played Scythe once. Maybe I'm missing something about the game the requires more plays to see.)
 
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Don Smith
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halbower wrote:
Our group loves Imperial 2030 (and Imperial too). I think Antike would be a great fit. As I was researching this, I see there is an Antike II also. Can someone help me out? Is Antike II just better?


Personally, I like the Imperial games better than Antike or Antike II.

The Imperial games have more tension and interaction as players jockey for position in the companies, er, countries. In Antike II you're pretty much optimizing your little corner with some direct conflict but not a lot (if you want to win).

Try before you buy, would be my suggestion.
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Schema Man
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Imperial is my favorite game ever and I also like Antike II quite a bit. I agree with those who have said it's very different even though the Rondel is there. Our game group has played both Antike and Antike II several times. I like them both but prefer Antike II because I think it plays a bit quicker - maybe because you get a coin (wild resource) each time you produce). One of the guys in our group has played Antike a lot more than Antike II and his view seemed to be he also liked the way Antike II played a bit more than Antike, but liked the board in Antike better. I think Antike goes farther to the East than the Antike II board does, but I am not sure.

In any case, I think this is one of those happy events where there isn't really a bad choice!
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Walt
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halbower wrote:
The allure of Imperial is the low randomness, deterministic combat along with a good mix of tactics and strategy. The rondel really gives you a strong tactical control and the low randomness gives you strong strategic control. As such, I concluded we would love Antike.

If you think Imperial is about combat, you'll probably love Antike or Antike II.

If you play Imperial as a stock acquisition game, Antike (II) will seem completely different.
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Evan Duly
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davypi wrote:


Nonetheless, I sometimes think the gaming community gets a little too excited about games with asymmetric setups. ...

Final caveat here: I've only played Scythe once. Maybe I'm missing something about the game the requires more plays to see.)



There is nothing more to Scythe that you missed. It is an average game with nothing mechanically new or unique that hasn't been done before, and better. It's just very, very shiny.

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Edward B.
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I love Imperial 2030 (and Imperial), but I feel like it is hard for some people to come to grips with the strategy. Almost any time I play with a new group, at least one person can not come to a full realization that they don't 'own' their countries, even when told many times. They just latch on and then get confused/mad when they keep buying into that country and it results in no money for them.

Antike is more straightforward, which could be a bonus for some groups. I think it is a different enough game from Imperial to warrant getting both.

They both share the Gerdt's design of tight and simple rules with deep gameplay, though.
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Walt
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
NeedsNewDice wrote:
I love Imperial 2030 (and Imperial), but I feel like it is hard for some people to come to grips with the strategy. Almost any time I play with a new group, at least one person can not come to a full realization that they don't 'own' their countries, even when told many times. They just latch on and then get confused/mad when they keep buying into that country and it results in no money for them.

Agree, which is why I wrote my previous post. The following has the potential to ruin the game (but it won't ruin Antike [II].)

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Imperial sounds like it should be imperialistic. It is not. The best thing that can happen is that you lose control of your country and get the (I forget) I-don't-have-a-country bonus. At that point, if you buy the most efficient shares (in countries) available, you'll walk away with the game.

I don't own Imperial because that one insight seems to turn the game on its head. Since it only required that one insight, it's a play once game, for me.

Since I don't have a lot of experience with it, I have to allow for the possibility I'm wrong, but I was playing with some extremely experienced gamers and I'm used to picking up rules from scratch, so I don't think so. I was facing perhaps a century of gaming experience, with five opposing players.

Maybe I'm missing something. Certainly, with all conquest-oriented players, it's fine.
 
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David Jones
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Tall_Walt wrote:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Imperial sounds like it should be imperialistic. It is not. The best thing that can happen is that you lose control of your country and get the (I forget) I-don't-have-a-country bonus. At that point, if you buy the most efficient shares (in countries) available, you'll walk away with the game.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
First, once you get some experience with the game, players will recognize this as a problem and you can prevent this from happening by simply refusing to take over a player's last country. This condition is completely preventable and its only a problem if the other players let it happen. Second, being countryless is only an advantage in the early game. I have won games by despite taking the country from another player, but I only did so because at that point in the game, said player did not have a good enough income engine set up to allow them to take advantage of the Swiss bank. Once most of the 1-4 level bonds are gone, Swiss bank tends to stop working. If you read the forums, it also appears that playing without the investor card also reduces the effectiveness of Swiss bank, but I've yet to play the game this way.

What I would say the real problem with Imperial is is that about an hour into the game, you can usually tell who has the best income stream going and thus will win the game. It gets to be pretty grueling to play through the other hour when you already know the outcome.
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