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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » General

Subject: Lame insanity condition(s)? (Spoilers) rss

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Johnathan Gopen
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Got the "be in a space with fellow investigator with bladed weapon and you win, game is over" card.

WTF? I love the idea of these cards, but this one just seems like a lame and anti climactic way for everyone else to lose. Especially if you've all been playing one of the other scenarios.

What are y'alls thoughts on this card? Are there other insanity effects you've found to me more lame than atmospheric/challenging?
 
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Jonathan A
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Dalamarth wrote:
Got the "be in a space with fellow investigator with bladed weapon and you win, game is over" card.

WTF? I love the idea of these cards, but this one just seems like a lame and anti climactic way for everyone else to lose. Especially if you've all been playing one of the other scenarios.

What are y'alls thoughts on this card? Are there other insanity effects you've found to me more lame than atmospheric/challenging?


Why would you be in the same room as an insane person holding a knife?

In fact, you should probably never turn your back to an insane person holding a knife and force them to move first at all times. ninja

(I suppose it would be lame the first time it happened and you didn't see it coming.)
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I love the Insanity conditions, even the "lame" ones just for the reason that they exist and add diversity to the game outcomes. It is almost better when all of the players know which Insanity conditions are in the game. It's not about the actual win-condition, but the lengths you as the player go to achieve it.

For instance, the condition you listed, you need to Start your turn in a space with one other investigator and a bladed weapon. This can be quite challenging if you go insane and everyone else sees you have a bladed weapon. Chances are, they aren't going to want you go to first, since as long as they go before you, they can move out of your space and be safe for the round.

During one game, the second someone went insane, one of the other players said "Drop your bladed weapons and light sources on the ground as a show of good faith." The Insane player quickly complied to prove he was still on our side, however, was still acting a bit shifty the entire game. He bided his time. It wasn't until he had us where he wanted us that he stole someone else's Bladed weapon as his last action after that player became Restrained.

The existence of the other Insanity conditions means that players can play things quite differently to mind-game each other. For instance, you might have the stabby-stabby win condition, but decide to start fires around the map. Now everyone thinks that you're just a Pyromaniac, which may lead them to let down there guard and forget you have a knife, or force them to move into certain places to put out your fires, right into your trap.

There is also an Insanity condition where you win as normal, but cannot speak. A player with an alternate win-condition could basically spend the rest of the game silent, lulling their friends into a false sense of security, making them think you're still on their side.

There are so many ways to play it and pretend that you have a different Insanity Condition than you actually have that I've found the most intense/fun games come from one or more people going insane. Everything they do makes you wonder what they could possibly be after.

I don't find that anti-climactic at all.
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Jon Olsén
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I did to some degree agree with Johnathan in the beginning when I played the game.
But after thinking about it I have stopped to think of it as "winning" or "losing" the game. More as a story playing out where you play one or more of the characters. That is, the story each game tells is more important then the results at the end.

Sorry, if that is hard to understand, don't know how to express it in a good way.
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Johnathan Gopen
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BreadRising wrote:
I love the Insanity conditions, even the "lame" ones just for the reason that they exist and add diversity to the game outcomes. It is almost better when all of the players know which Insanity conditions are in the game. It's not about the actual win-condition, but the lengths you as the player go to achieve it.

For instance, the condition you listed, you need to Start your turn in a space with one other investigator and a bladed weapon. This can be quite challenging if you go insane and everyone else sees you have a bladed weapon. Chances are, they aren't going to want you go to first, since as long as they go before you, they can move out of your space and be safe for the round.

During one game, the second someone went insane, one of the other players said "Drop your bladed weapons and light sources on the ground as a show of good faith." The Insane player quickly complied to prove he was still on our side, however, was still acting a bit shifty the entire game. He bided his time. It wasn't until he had us where he wanted us that he stole someone else's Bladed weapon as his last action after that player became Restrained.

The existence of the other Insanity conditions means that players can play things quite differently to mind-game each other. For instance, you might have the stabby-stabby win condition, but decide to start fires around the map. Now everyone thinks that you're just a Pyromaniac, which may lead them to let down there guard and forget you have a knife, or force them to move into certain places to put out your fires, right into your trap.

There is also an Insanity condition where you win as normal, but cannot speak. A player with an alternate win-condition could basically spend the rest of the game silent, lulling their friends into a false sense of security, making them think you're still on their side.

There are so many ways to play it and pretend that you have a different Insanity Condition than you actually have that I've found the most intense/fun games come from one or more people going insane. Everything they do makes you wonder what they could possibly be after.

I don't find that anti-climactic at all.


This totally makes sense. But then what's the best approach for new players? Tell them what all the possible cards are? Let them find out the hard way their first go around?

My concern stems from the fact that my group tends to get salty if they lose due to a rule they didn't properly understand or consider super relevant. Getting sidelined and insta killed by a team mate may sour them towards the game.
 
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Jon Olsén
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You could play with only the 1+ and 2+ cards. To my knowledge they have no traitor cards.
Another idea, as you said, would be to tell them all possibilities, it really depend on the group.
 
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Dalamarth wrote:
BreadRising wrote:
I love the Insanity conditions, even the "lame" ones just for the reason that they exist and add diversity to the game outcomes. It is almost better when all of the players know which Insanity conditions are in the game. It's not about the actual win-condition, but the lengths you as the player go to achieve it.

For instance, the condition you listed, you need to Start your turn in a space with one other investigator and a bladed weapon. This can be quite challenging if you go insane and everyone else sees you have a bladed weapon. Chances are, they aren't going to want you go to first, since as long as they go before you, they can move out of your space and be safe for the round.

During one game, the second someone went insane, one of the other players said "Drop your bladed weapons and light sources on the ground as a show of good faith." The Insane player quickly complied to prove he was still on our side, however, was still acting a bit shifty the entire game. He bided his time. It wasn't until he had us where he wanted us that he stole someone else's Bladed weapon as his last action after that player became Restrained.

The existence of the other Insanity conditions means that players can play things quite differently to mind-game each other. For instance, you might have the stabby-stabby win condition, but decide to start fires around the map. Now everyone thinks that you're just a Pyromaniac, which may lead them to let down there guard and forget you have a knife, or force them to move into certain places to put out your fires, right into your trap.

There is also an Insanity condition where you win as normal, but cannot speak. A player with an alternate win-condition could basically spend the rest of the game silent, lulling their friends into a false sense of security, making them think you're still on their side.

There are so many ways to play it and pretend that you have a different Insanity Condition than you actually have that I've found the most intense/fun games come from one or more people going insane. Everything they do makes you wonder what they could possibly be after.

I don't find that anti-climactic at all.


This totally makes sense. But then what's the best approach for new players? Tell them what all the possible cards are? Let them find out the hard way their first go around?

My concern stems from the fact that my group tends to get salty if they lose due to a rule they didn't properly understand or consider super relevant. Getting sidelined and insta killed by a team mate may sour them towards the game.


I definitely understand that concern when it comes to new players. I wouldn't mention anything until Insanity actually comes up. Then once a player is about to go insane, just give a little Preamble for everyone. "Insanity has the ability to change the game; someone who goes insane might have a different win condition than us or might be forced to behave strangely. I advise you watch yourselves around the Insane person, keeping in mind that we still need them alive to win."

This should give everyone proper warning that they could be betrayed. If you want to table talk, you can tell them which conditions you've run into before so they can prepare.

If a traitor mechanic really bothers your group that much, you can always take out the betrayal cards, though their absence, as I noted in my other rant, definitely makes the Insanity mechanic less fun, since wondering if your friend is really out to get you while you try to finish the scenario is part of the experience.
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Justin Colm
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Dalamarth wrote:
Are there other insanity effects you've found to me more lame than atmospheric/challenging?


All of them.

We ignore them (2 players). If it tells us we technically didn't win because 'such and such' then okay, whatever. We begun the game trying to solve the mystery and that's how we end the game. For us, that is where the enjoyment lies, not with arbitrary Insanity stipulations.
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Tatu Hirvonen
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I'm okay with the traitor cards but it was somewhat anticlimatic the first time I saw the sacrifice for Shub-Niggurath, yet very intriguing. As some replies have suggested I think that at least the terms for winning as each traitor type should be told beforehand.

The only insanity condition I'm not comfortable with is the one where you can't speak. I play boardgames mainly because I want to discuss about the board state or at least verbally bluff. Right now in my play group we're playing without that particular insanity card. I understand that the card merely being in the card pool makes nice bluffs available but it just didn't suit for us.
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Craig Bocketti
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Tasku wrote:
I'm okay with the traitor cards but it was somewhat anticlimatic the first time I saw the sacrifice for Shub-Niggurath, yet very intriguing. As some replies have suggested I think that at least the terms for winning as each traitor type should be told beforehand.

The only insanity condition I'm not comfortable with is the one where you can't speak. I play boardgames mainly because I want to discuss about the board state or at least verbally bluff. Right now in my play group we're playing without that particular insanity card. I understand that the card merely being in the card pool makes nice bluffs available but it just didn't suit for us.


I agree about this card. I don't think it even makes sense to have "the player" not be able to talk. I could understand if it prohibited the character from talking to NPC in the game. But why have an insanity condition that breaks the fourth wall and actually affects the players ability to speak?
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will witean

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yes some of them are rather lame..

you just played for 2 hours and now game is over because I got a knife.

or the pyro one.. I think start 6 fires then you can win game as normal.

some are kind of a lame way to end a game.
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mustardayonnaiz wrote:
Tasku wrote:
I'm okay with the traitor cards but it was somewhat anticlimatic the first time I saw the sacrifice for Shub-Niggurath, yet very intriguing. As some replies have suggested I think that at least the terms for winning as each traitor type should be told beforehand.

The only insanity condition I'm not comfortable with is the one where you can't speak. I play boardgames mainly because I want to discuss about the board state or at least verbally bluff. Right now in my play group we're playing without that particular insanity card. I understand that the card merely being in the card pool makes nice bluffs available but it just didn't suit for us.


I agree about this card. I don't think it even makes sense to have "the player" not be able to talk. I could understand if it prohibited the character from talking to NPC in the game. But why have an insanity condition that breaks the fourth wall and actually affects the players ability to speak?


I think the biggest factor, that's already been covered, is that it allows players who have alternate win conditions to bluff which condition they have. Not talking is an easy way to do that.
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David Ainsworth
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This happened last night. I went insane and got the One of the Thousand card. I stabbed up my mate on the following round. We decided immediately to just redraw my insanity card. Next time we play I'm going to vet the insanity deck.

My group loves hidden traitor games, and I personally love hidden traitor mechanics as much as any other mechanic. But here, in this game, I just don't see what they add. Maybe if it had lasting consequences like in a campaign style game, a knock-on effect to the next story in the chain or whatever, I'd be fine with it. In fact I'm sure I'd be really happy with it. But as it is, you literally just end the narrative right there and then, and this game is all about that narrative.

Doesn't work for me.
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Tristan Hall
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CletusVanDamme wrote:
This happened last night. I went insane and got the One of the Thousand card. I stabbed up my mate on the following round. We decided immediately to just redraw my insanity card. Next time we play I'm going to vet the insanity deck.

My group loves hidden traitor games, and I personally love hidden traitor mechanics as much as any other mechanic. But here, in this game, I just don't see what they add. Maybe if it had lasting consequences like in a campaign style game, a knock-on effect to the next story in the chain or whatever, I'd be fine with it. In fact I'm sure I'd be really happy with it. But as it is, you literally just end the narrative right there and then, and this game is all about that narrative.

Doesn't work for me.


Agree 100%.
Caveat: I was the guy who got stabbed...
Caveat 2: we ignored it and played on, and apart from that the Innsmouth scenario was one of the best board gaming experiences I think I've had. goo
 
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Chris J Davis
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Dalamarth wrote:
Got the "be in a space with fellow investigator with bladed weapon and you win, game is over" card.

WTF? I love the idea of these cards, but this one just seems like a lame and anti climactic way for everyone else to lose. Especially if you've all been playing one of the other scenarios.

What are y'alls thoughts on this card? Are there other insanity effects you've found to me more lame than atmospheric/challenging?


Just checking that you're aware that the card requires the insane investigator to be in the same space as another investigator at the start of the insane investigator's turn in order for them to win? They cannot just have a bladed weapon and move to another investigator's space. This actually makes it much harder to carry out than you might think.
 
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Chris J Davis
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Ninja_Bob wrote:
Dalamarth wrote:
Got the "be in a space with fellow investigator with bladed weapon and you win, game is over" card.

WTF? I love the idea of these cards, but this one just seems like a lame and anti climactic way for everyone else to lose. Especially if you've all been playing one of the other scenarios.

What are y'alls thoughts on this card? Are there other insanity effects you've found to me more lame than atmospheric/challenging?


Why would you be in the same room as an insane person holding a knife?

In fact, you should probably never turn your back to an insane person holding a knife and force them to move first at all times. ninja


You cannot force another player to go first. If there is a disagreement between the players (for example, in regard to who should move first), you decide randomly. So you can reduce the chance of the insane player going first to 1-in-X (where X is the number of players), but you cannot eliminate it entirely.
 
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