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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Monster movement clarification rss

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Doug Scott
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This is something that only occurred to me just now, most of the way through my second time playing.

In this example, the monster's move/attack text is the standard "The Witch moves up to 2 spaces to be within range of as many investigators as possible. Then it attack each investigator withing range."

And the usual options are "The monster attacks" and "Cannot move to be within range." I'd been moving the monster the two spaces towards as many investigators as possible, but not reaching them, and then, after choosing the second option, moving it again when the app follows up with "The Witch moves 2 spaces toward the nearest investigator."

However, that phrasing is now making me second-guess myself. "Cannot move to be within range." It sort of sounds like, because the Witch can't get withing range, it simply doesn't move that first time, only from the follow-up text. Does that make sense? Heck, does any of this post make sense?
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Will Martin
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That's how I always have played it.

If the monster cannot fulfill a condition, it does not. This includes if an investigator is behind a door, since that breaks range.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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You should only choose the second option if the monster didn't move. The instruction wasn't to move towards investigators, it was to move to be within range. If it cannot move to be within range, it cannot move.

Now, if anybody still wants to argue that you should move the monster for the first instruction, and again for the second instruction, then I give you this counter-argument:

If the monster cannot move to be within range of any Investigators, then every space it can reach has 0 Investigators within range. Thus, all of them are valid end-points for the movement, as they all are within range of the most Investigators. As they are all equally valid, I could have the monster move away from the investigators for the first movement.

I think we can all agree that the above is not intended, but it is perfectly within the rules as written if you consider that the option says you should be moving the monster for the first instruction.
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Doug Scott
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All right, then! Thanks!

Just wish it hadn't taken me so long to notice this...
 
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Johnny Li
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Clipper wrote:
You should only choose the second option if the monster didn't move. The instruction wasn't to move towards investigators, it was to move to be within range. If it cannot move to be within range, it cannot move.

Now, if anybody still wants to argue that you should move the monster for the first instruction, and again for the second instruction, then I give you this counter-argument:

If the monster cannot move to be within range of any Investigators, then every space it can reach has 0 Investigators within range. Thus, all of them are valid end-points for the movement, as they all are within range of the most Investigators. As they are all equally valid, I could have the monster move away from the investigators for the first movement.

I think we can all agree that the above is not intended, but it is perfectly within the rules as written if you consider that the option says you should be moving the monster for the first instruction.


This is how I've been playing it as well.
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Aaron Velox
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I always move the monsters. Me and my companions agreed that it doesn't make sense for a monster to stay frozen in a space if it's not baracaded in a room. So whenever we are told to move a monster within range, if there are no investigators within range, we just move it the 3 spaces towards the closet investigator.

I pretty much made a whole thread dedicated to this topic that went nowhere because no one agreed on a correct form, so I basically don't care anymore. Until we get an official word from Nikki, that's how we're playing it.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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StarryAqua wrote:
I always move the monsters. Me and my companions agreed that it doesn't make sense for a monster to stay frozen in a space if it's not baracaded in a room. So whenever we are told to move a monster within range, if there are no investigators within range, we just move it the 3 spaces towards the closet investigator.


I would be willing to bet (as it is true for every example I have witnessed so far) that every such monster, after you clicked "cannot move to be within range", would then tell you to move 3 spaces towards the closest investigator. With this, would you actually move the monster 6 spaces? That is clearly not the intention.

Perhaps we're confusing instructions here. Note that there is a big difference between the following two examples:

1: "Monster X moves up to 2 spaces to be within range of as many investigators as possible. Then it attack each investigator withing range."

and

2: "Monster X moves up to 2 spaces towards the closest investigator. Then it attack each investigator withing range."

In example 2, the monster does indeed try to move. You will notice that if you click the "no investigators within range" option on such a monster, then its activation will usually be over (but not always).

In example 1, as we were discussing in the above posts, the monster should not move. It is guaranteed that the "cannot move to be within range" option that you click will change the type of movement to one that moves towards investigators. As I argued earlier, if every space that is up to 2 spaces away is within range of 0 investigators, you could thus move to any of those spaces. Nothing about the first instruction forces you to get closer to the investigators when you can't get within range of any of them.

Now, we do have another quandary when example 1 leads the monster to a Barrier which it fails to break down. Does it try to follow the follow-up instruction? Let's leave that argument to the other threads that are already discussing it.

What seems certain is that a "Move to be within range of as many investigators as possible" instruction should not move the monster when none of the spaces it can reach are within range of anybody.
 
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Aaron Velox
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Clipper wrote:
I would be willing to bet (as it is true for every example I have witnessed so far) that every such monster, after you clicked "cannot move to be within range", would then tell you to move 3 spaces towards the closest investigator. With this, would you actually move the monster 6 spaces? That is clearly not the intention.



Clipper wrote:
What seems certain is that a "Move to be within range of as many investigators as possible" instruction should not move the monster when none of the spaces it can reach are within range of anybody.


I'm not saying whether or not that's the correct intention. I'm saying that's what we do. Monsters constantly coming after you makes more sense to us, so we do the 6 space moves. Even if Nikki gives official word that this isn't correct, chances are we'll still continue to play as such because it makes more sense to us. At least with my current group. Perhaps another group of friends would prefer the "correct" way.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The monster is moving towards you, though. It moves three spaces towards you via the second instruction as it couldn't move anywhere via the first instruction. That's the whole point of the second instruction's existence!

Monsters that use a first instruction that definitely involves movement don't have that follow-up instruction for the second attempt of movement (except in one specific case with a rather slow, plodding monster). Monsters that use a first instruction that could result in no movement have the second instruction, so they definitely move for one of the two instructions, but not for both.
 
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Johan Anglemark
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StarryAqua wrote:
Clipper wrote:
I would be willing to bet (as it is true for every example I have witnessed so far) that every such monster, after you clicked "cannot move to be within range", would then tell you to move 3 spaces towards the closest investigator. With this, would you actually move the monster 6 spaces? That is clearly not the intention.

Clipper wrote:
What seems certain is that a "Move to be within range of as many investigators as possible" instruction should not move the monster when none of the spaces it can reach are within range of anybody.

I'm not saying whether or not that's the correct intention. I'm saying that's what we do. Monsters constantly coming after you makes more sense to us, so we do the 6 space moves. Even if Nikki gives official word that this isn't correct, chances are we'll still continue to play as such because it makes more sense to us. At least with my current group. Perhaps another group of friends would prefer the "correct" way.

As "correct" means "balanced here, yes we would. This is a boardgame, not a role-playing game. There's no GM to balance things for us if we choose to ignore fundamental rules. At one time we had eight monsters on the board simultaneously. We barely survived that, because the scenario designers had set them to spawn in different locations, so that they wouldn't all hit us at the same time.
 
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Sam R
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I read this as a 2 step thing...

first Range = 3 spaces away not going through walls/doors
(usually everything in the same room)


1. The Witch moves up to 2 spaces to be within range of as many investigators as possible.


- Move the witch up to 2 so that she is can get as many investigators as possible within range.

2. Then it attacks each investigator within range.

- The witch attacks each investigator who is within range from her.


That's how i now read it, Originally I was hung up on thinking the witch had to be in the same space as the investigators to attack, but I dont think the witch works that way. She will do some horrific thing to shock you and cause horror, or cast a spell at range to damage you etc etc...

I feel like this makes the witch a little tougher than how I played her originally, but I still think she's manageable.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Samuelr wrote:
I read this as a 2 step thing...

first Range = 3 spaces away not going through walls/doors
(usually everything in the same room)


1. The Witch moves up to 2 spaces to be within range of as many investigators as possible.


- Move the witch up to 2 so that she is can get as many investigators as possible within range.

2. Then it attacks each investigator within range.

- The witch attacks each investigator who is within range from her.

And if there is nobody she can get within Range of, she won't move at all for this instruction. There will be a button that states, "Cannot move to be within range." She'll be given a different movement command when you click the button.

Quote:
That's how i now read it, Originally I was hung up on thinking the witch had to be in the same space as the investigators to attack, but I dont think the witch works that way. She will do some horrific thing to shock you and cause horror, or cast a spell at range to damage you etc etc...

You're correct now that this is an area attack and the Witch in question does not need to be in the space of her targets.
 
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