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Glorantha: The Gods War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Some rules questions rss

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clarence
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1) If I conquer a enemy Ziggurat, and replace it with my Ziggurat.
Does it count as completing the place a Ziggurat heroquest?

2) Earth Gift Quake. Can i move a earth building to an area with a earth unit with no building? Or I can only swap between buildings area.

3) Can I use Rune to affect other player. ie. I use The Plant Rune upgrade another empire building?

4) Since two non-Chaos players can have buildings in an area, due to Insurgency and change Rune. That is the only two way in the FAQ.

Can I have a few question on this issue?

a) If there is a storm temple with a Chaos nest. If storm attack the nest and replace it with a storm temple. It result 2 storm temple in the same Area.
Is this allow? Also it mean they get 2 rout in battle.

b) If the above is legal. IF another player attack storm in that area.
Can he conquer both temple or he only can conquer one and destroy other because he don't have Insurgency?

5) Heroquest! Rune Replace your God or Mortal with a God or Mortal,
respectively (like for like) from your pool.
Can A Chaos player replace the Lady of disease with a Mad God using this Rune. (Let say Magna Mater is in play)




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Guillaume Andriot
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1. Yes.
2. My understanding is that you can only swap existing buildings.
3. Depend on the rune. The wording for Plant is a bit vague tough...
4. The bit in the FAQ about Insurgency is very confusing and I don't know if its valid anymore. As far as I understand, Storm can only conquer a Chaos Nest with Insurgency if its not allready sharing the area with another building... Unless I'm completly mistaken.
5.Probably yes. Runes tend to bypass normal rules.
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Graham Robinson
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1. Yes.
2 & 3. No idea.
4. Yes, Storm can replace a chaos nest with a temple, even if there's another building already there, even his. The rules as writ allow only the conquest or destruction of a lone building. This may be an oversight, though.
5. Yes.

Cheers,
Graham
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Graham Robinson
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And my questions:

6. If another player helps Yelm leave Hell without granting permission (say, using Orlanth's Teleport Gift), does that player gain a Rune?

7. Does Teleporting Yelm trigger Dawn?

Cheers,
Graham
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clarence
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6) I assume he doesn't get a Rune. Sky still able to complete the heroquest and gain 2 rune.

7) Good question. i think yes. It cost 2 power for storm to trigger that.
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Darren Semmen
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therealbuserian wrote:
1. Yes.
2 & 3. No idea.
4. Yes, Storm can replace a chaos nest with a temple, even if there's another building already there, even his. The rules as writ allow only the conquest or destruction of a lone building. This may be an oversight, though.
5. Yes.

Cheers,
Graham


Here's what Arthur Petersen wrote in another thread:

SpectrumDT wrote:
The Storm Gift "Insurgency" can turn an enemy building into a Temple during Conquest - even if it is a Chaos Nest.

What if there is already another building in the area with the Chaos Nest (be it my own building or someone else's)? Can I still Conquer the Chaos Nest and turn it into a Temple?

Arthur's reply:

No. Only Chaos Nests can be in an area with another building. So, if there is already another building, and you Battle Chaos, you must destroy the Chaos Nest.
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Graham Robinson
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The FAQ on the rules includes:
Q. If two non-Chaos players have buildings in an area, due to Insurgency, or some Rune or other ability, can Chaos build a Chaos Nest there?

Arthur would appear to be wrong.

Cheers,
Graham
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Guillaume Andriot
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therealbuserian wrote:

6. If another player helps Yelm leave Hell without granting permission (say, using Orlanth's Teleport Gift), does that player gain a Rune?


No permission was given, since Teleport bypass it. So you wouldn't get a Rune since giving permission is the condition to get it.

therealbuserian wrote:
7. Does Teleporting Yelm trigger Dawn?


PnP FAQ page 25

-Q. Does the Sun God’s Dawn ability only get used when he moves from Hell to the Surface World?
-A. No, it happens every time he Moves to an Area outside Hell, regardless of whence the move originated. For example, if he moves from the Elf Jungle to the Enmal Mountains it triggers.

Based on this I would say that Teleport trigger Dawn.

And we really need some clarification for Insurgency. There might have been an update to the rules since the PnP. Ths actually impact Storm gameplay a lot.
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Adam Starks
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Move is a specific action, not a general term, so I don't think Teleport triggers it. Otherwise, it would say something like "Whenever Yelm enters an area outside of Hell".

If Teleport did trigger it, then so would some of the Runes, which would allow for some crazy combos, like using Darkness followed by Air to double-move all your units, and THEN taking your actual action.

On that note, I'm wondering if Chaos gets the Dragon rune, if that can be leveraged for Blood Sacrifice. To get even crazier, say Chaos has Dragon, Chaosium, and Illusion. Comboing that would give him 3 extra Greater Gods, which is a lot more coverage.
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Guillaume Andriot
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This is why precise and carefull wording is important. Right now Teleport use the term "move" wich by RAW would trigger Yelm's ability.

And yeah, Runes as they are right now have a lot of vague of loose wording subject to interpretation that can lead to crazy effects. But its hard to tell wich ones are intended and wich one are consequences of unclear wording.
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Adam Starks
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It is a little ambiguous, but a hint is that Dawn uses Move with a capital M, which implies the proper term. This kind of thing popped up a bunch of Cthulhu Wars, though, so an official answer would be good.

Personally, I think Move should be replaced with something like March, which is a much more specific term. That way, Move could be implied by Teleport, Air, Call to Justice, etc, but March only ever refers to the March action.
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Darren Semmen
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therealbuserian wrote:
The FAQ on the rules includes:
Q. If two non-Chaos players have buildings in an area, due to Insurgency, or some Rune or other ability, can Chaos build a Chaos Nest there?

Arthur would appear to be wrong.

Cheers,
Graham


I mostly agree. However, the FAQ does say "two non-Chaos players". I didn't find anything in the rules that says whether one non-Chaos player can have two buildings in one area. Based on Arthur's answer, I would guess the intended answer is, "No."

Thanks,

Darren
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Darren Semmen
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Has anyone tried playing a game without runes, i.e., as if the rune deck was exhausted?
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Guillaume Andriot
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Darren23 wrote:
Has anyone tried playing a game without runes, i.e., as if the rune deck was exhausted?


No. And I fear this might break the game as some factions rely heavily on Runes to compensate for some other drawback. Chaos and Invisible God are both heavy Runes drawers to compensate for the fact they only have 6 buildings. Earth hoard Runes in prevision for the late game where she will be weakened by the loss of her Greater Gods and possible lack of avalaible Earth Queens. Sea get "free" Runes from his Heroquests to compensate for his particular early game.

If you play without runes you might break thoses factions either by gimping them or giving them an unfair way to score guaranted VP (as per the empty Rune deck rules).

But hey, feel free to try. Tell us how it goes.
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Lincoln Petersen
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Adam is correct as always. The FAQ should state that whenever he moves and is not in hell. Not when he moves outside of hell. Besides it freaking not his turn you can't go and move all your units on another person's turn!

There can never be two buildings in an area where one of them is not a choas nest.

Insurgency you must destroy the nest is there another building there. Really to make it clear Insurgency should say turn any LONE building into temple instead of it's equivalent.
 
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Graham Robinson
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linkthestink wrote:
There can never be two buildings in an area where one of them is not a choas nest.


That's quite a change from the print and play, which mentions two means of doing this - Insurgency and the Change Rune.

Cheers,
Graham
 
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Lincoln Petersen
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I think I wrote it wrong... I meant two buildings can only be in an area if one of them is Chaos nest.

Insurgency will be fixed immediately to say if there is a lone building being conquered you can turn it into a temple instead. It never was the case before, it was just poorly worded.

The Change Rune is an exception though, because runes break the game.
 
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Sol Kanar
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"3) Can I use Rune to affect other player. ie. I use The Plant Rune upgrade another empire building?"

Good question for the Plant Rune !

For exemple :
I move lot's of my unit in a area with a opponent's temple in order to conquer the building on my next action with a battle.
But just before my next turn, i chose to upgrade the temple in a ziggurat with the Plant Rune. So at the end of the battle i conquer a Ziggurat which is much better than a temple !! (Ok i've lost one more unit in the process due to the "kill" of the Ziggurat)

Sandy, can you do that? it seems very/too strong.
I think this rune (Plant) must be clarified.


 
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Adam Starks
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In that situation, it would seem better to just conquer the temple, and then use Plant on yourself. Not sure how that's too strong, you're just upgrading a Temple to a Ziggurat, which is worth 3 power...
 
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Sandy Petersen
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Mormorod wrote:
"3) Can I use Rune to affect other player. ie. I use The Plant Rune upgrade another empire building?"

Good question for the Plant Rune !

For exemple :
I move lots of my unit in a area with a opponent's temple in order to conquer the building on my next action with a battle.
But just before my next turn, i chose to upgrade the temple in a ziggurat with the Plant Rune. So at the end of the battle i conquer a Ziggurat which is much better than a temple !! (Ok i've lost one more unit in the process due to the "kill" of the Ziggurat)

Sandy, can you do that? it seems very/too strong.
I think this rune (Plant) must be clarified.


Runes can only be used AFTER an Action. So here is what would happen.

Option One

First Action - I move a crapload of units to an opponent's temple Area, then play a Rune to upgrade his temple to a ziggurat (I guess?)

Second Action - I conquer his ziggurat.

Option Two

First Action - I move a crapload of units to an opponent's temple Area.

Second Action - I conquer his temple. Then play a Rune and upgrade MY new temple to a ziggurat.

I think I would only use Option One if I was Darkness and was hoping to capture the enemy Ziggurat for my Heroquest (and then hang onto it for a turn or two). Or if I was Invisible God and wanted the bonus Rune for conquering a Ziggurat, again for the relevant Heroquest. (He has a Heroquest for which the requirement is "Conquer an enemy building. If it is a Ziggurat, also gain a Rune".

This Rune can indeed be used to bump up a building into a Ziggurat. When so used, it is, in effect, a rather inflexible boost of 3 Power. I am not sure how this unbalances the game.
 
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