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Subject: Daybreak and Exodus rss

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Peter F
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I have been playing BSG for over a year now and allready bought daybreak.
Now im thinking about getting exodus. Especially for the CFB.
How well do those two integrate into each other. I think i read somewhere that you should either play one or the other.
Is it worth buying exodus?
thanks!
 
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Thomas Schwarz
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Actually I would highly recommend buying Exodus.
I won't play another game of BSG without the Cylon Fleet option. With it you can plan much better, when the next Cylon attack will happen. I mean, with the Vanilla Game, we had situations where Pilots got bored the whole game, because we never were ambushed or another situation, where we drew 3 attacks in 4 Crisis cards, jumped shortly after that and then again: Nothing.

I haven't played many of the other options Exodus brings with it, but a friend of mine told me, that he is not big friend of the Nebula rules, but the final five bring some new things on the board and you must alter your way to play if you play with them.

But the Cylon Fleet... Buying Exodus is worth it for this alone!
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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We (almost) always play with CFB and all expansions to Kobol with Final Five and Personal Goals, with Cylon Leader Motives when applicable.

The Daybreak treachery does not take CFB into account, there are too many Baits and Dradis Contacts (and A Better Machines), which all can either snowball, or be abused by the human players. So, we use an adjusted treachery deck:
a) add half of the Pegasus treachery,
b) remove 2 Baits, 1 A Better Machine, 1 Dradis Contact, and 1 Personal Vices.

It works well for us.
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Peter F
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i dont own pegasus.
so its best to play without the skill check cards from daybreak?
what about mutiny?
 
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Josh
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I actually think that Daybreak addresses some of the problems that the Cylon Fleet was trying to solve, differently, and the Daybreak content works well with Cylon Attack Crises.

As a completionist I would still recommend buying both Exodus and Pegasus, but you might not end up using all of the optional modules together. You'll need to mix and match until you meet your playgroup's preferences.

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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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headput1 wrote:
so its best to play without the skill check cards from daybreak?
what about mutiny?

You need to see how the default treachery deck works for you. I would not leave it out without playing rules as written first. (I can think of a couple of house rules to adjust the working of the Daybreak treachery with the Cylon Fleet Board.)

Mutiny is not directly related to treachery nor Mutineer. If you use Daybreak crisis cards, you will have the mutiny deck in play.

 
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Peter F
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i know that mutiny is not related to mutineer but woven in with treachery.
my main question was if base+exodus+daybreak works well together because somewhere i read it wouldnt and you should play one or the other.
the main reason is because i kinda want to try the CFB.
 
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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headput1 wrote:
my main question was if base+exodus+daybreak works well together

Only your group knows if it works for your group.

We love the CFB, and every time we try CAC instead, we are reminded why we use CFB. We have found the modules that work with our group, and every game is still different.
 
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Peter F
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How easy is it to manipulate the cfb with just daybreak treachery?
 
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Jeffrey
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There is a treachery card that puts one or two raiders on the main board, which would slow down the progress of the CFB. A human might want to play that to keep the larger fleet at bay. None of the other cards, afaik, affect the CFB.
 
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Kwijiboe
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headput1 wrote:
How easy is it to manipulate the cfb with just daybreak treachery?


It depends when Daybreak's treachery builds up steam. However, towards the end of the game, it would potentially be easier to stall since humans may have a few stashed dradis contacts (or whatever the 2 raider treachery is called). But, then the Cylons will probably be revealed and able to better manage the fleet board.

However, if it happens early in the game, it does not feel right at all. Personally, rules as written, I think the two expansions are unmixable.

Id advise playing Exodus on its own and removing ALL of Daybreak's components. But will your brain live with the discomfort of removing Daybreak components from the game? That's really the first battle you're facing here.

You really need to feel how Exodus changes BSG into a completely different game first. Tip: The exodus Rulebook says the CFB is an optional module when it is really not optional at all. Play with that module only and stay far away from Conflicted Loyalties and the Ionian Nebula UNTIL you get a grasp on what the CFB is trying to accomplish. It will stomp you for the first few games once you realize you no longer have time/actions to do anything but react to the Cylon buildup.

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headput1 wrote:
I have been playing BSG for over a year now and allready bought daybreak.
Now im thinking about getting exodus. Especially for the CFB.
How well do those two integrate into each other. I think i read somewhere that you should either play one or the other.
Is it worth buying exodus?
thanks!
The 3 of them work well enough together. When considering combos of expansions, there are always tradeoffs. You really won't find them posting on the BSG message boards, but there are folks who go so far as to say that NONE of the BSG's should be played.



Folks mention the optional modules of Exodus. I also like having the extra variety of characters, and the skill cards are quite interesting. The 0-strength skill cards in the series were introduced here, and even though overall don't do as much as the ones in Daybreak, the ones here at least can be played and done with, whereas the Daybreak ones require input from the current player, which would expose him as a cylon if he does any bad. Even though it's only 3 extra Qcards, I it does provide variety, and keeps players from spamming certain Qcards (even with the 10-Qcard hand limit rule).

Bait from Daybreak has been used by humans to keep raiders from attacking Galactica by putting out a civvy and having them chase after it. Dradis Contact to put out 2 raiders and keep the Raider activation icons from moving the Pursuit track on the CFB. One workaround variant I heard for this was to always +1 on the Pursuit track whenever you resolve a cylon ship icon on a crisis card in the bottom left hand corner. I've never tried it, but it seems like the person who suggested this variant said it works.
 
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Geoff Conn
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I'm not a fan of the cfb. At. All.

Nor most other modules either.

However, fwiw, I bought all expansions just for the skill and character cards.
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M. B. Downey
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KillerPower wrote:
Actually I would highly recommend buying Exodus.
I won't play another game of BSG without the Cylon Fleet option.


Just to show that opinions differ on this a lot, I can't stand the CFB and am almost at the point of refusing to play with it. You should figure out what problem you find in the game and then see if the CFB is worth getting.

For me, BSG is not a space combat game, but all about hidden loyalties and the intrigue. There are plenty of things for pilots to do in between Cylon Attacks. With the CFB, the game turns into managing the attacks and takes up all of the actions. I find this dull.

If you really have a problem with the CAC frequency, you could do something like Pandemic seeding. Take two thirds of the CAC out (or whatever number you prefer), shuffle the remaining third into the crisis deck. Split the crisis deck into equal piles, then shuffle one of the remaining CACs into each deck, then stack them on top of each other. You get regular cylon attacks, but they are still unpredictable, and with the extra third shuffled in, you could still get a few in a row and never know how safe you might be.

But like all things, YMMV.
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Jeff
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Is Exodus worth buying, short answer: Yes.

Longer answer, the Cylon Fleet Board from Exodus is probably the most controversial optional module for BSG. Some groups love it, some groups hate it, and you can probably see that from the replies you have gotten.
It does refocus the game away from the skill check and hidden information aspect towards more straight forward space combat. And really there is no way to know if that is what you and your group will prefer until you try it. And while you can technically play using Exodus components without the CFB, most of us will not recommend that.

Now, you said you did not own Pegasus. I would suggest you look at picking that up before adding Exodus. The CFB is rather difficult for the humans to manage without the Pegasus board in play. And the Pegasus components combine more easily with Daybreak without radically changing the game. You get a bunch more Quorum Cards, many new crisis cards which deal with Treachery, and if you use Cylon Leaders you get the rest of set.

Also, Pegasus has the Plastic Basestars, so yeah, gotta have those.
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Kwijiboe
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While I agree that Pegasus and Exodus balance each other out, I think once players tend to play with components they experience a lot of discomfort when it comes to removing components. Which is why I don't recommend you throw everything in one pot.

More isn't always better, it has a lot of latent effects on the game.

As a small example, the Pegasus Quorum cards may seem like they add a lot of variety to the Quorum deck, but the effect they actually have is nerfing the President.

Adding Pegasus' nine cards to the deck decreases the chance of drawing an arrest order at the start of he game from 11.7% (2 in 17) to 7.6% (2 in 26). While this may seem like it's not a big deal, but the power of the President relies almost completely on those arrest orders being accessible. When you look at Roslin's OPG, you see that, this also nerfs her effectiveness as well.

The same too, goes for adding new destinations to the deck. It decreases the chance that the Admiral draws into Barren Planets and The Desolate Moons making a fuel loss much less likely. This is PARAMOUNT especially if you are playing as Admiral Adama--he has really no better way to win other than targeting fuel.

Exodus does more of the same by adding decks haphazardly into each deck. In Daybreak, the titles remain STRONG simply because those corresponding decks are not messed with.

Is Exodus (and Pegasus) worth buying? In my opinion, no. Are they worth trying? Yeah, absolutely.

Honestly, if you want to pay me the postage, I'll send my copy of Exodus to you. You might need to invest in some tape though.

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Victor Lesperance
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I love the *idea* of the CFB. Every player I've played with loved the idea of the CFB. In our first play with it, the cylon fleet only came out one time at distance 7. Of course, with that kind of buildup, that fleet appeared with almost every cylon ship suddenly in play.

The cylons who had been getting a bit upset, finally felt vindication. Then again, I was playing Starbuck and since I hadn't seen a single combat the entire game, I was able to save the best of the best of the piloting cards. Literally! (and for once using that word correctly).

She got 2 actions and played, "Best of the Best" rolled an 8 and killed 8 raiders. Then she played Maximum Firepower, killing 3 more. And that one turn pretty much summed up the entire space combat for that game.

In that game, Draedis Contacts stalled the CFB as others have mentioned. And team human instantly saw the value of just sitting in Communications and kiting the civvies around the board so the 2 raiders just endlessly circled.

The other half of the stall was the rule that when the cylons run out of a ship type, only one sector jumps in. With only 2 basestars, it was ALWAYS the basestar that jumped in. And I don't know if it was luck or statistics, but that basestar ALWAYS jumped in by itself. In the time it takes a single basestar to build a head of steam, we just ignored it and eventually jumped away with no combat. And the CFB was stalled the entire jump cycle, as usual.

Humans won, but it felt incredibly cheap and gamey.

Another of my groups was chomping at the bit to play the CFB. I stalled them as long as possible, but one day relented. The exact same thing happened.

So, that's only 2 plays. Not a valid statistical sample in the slightest, but enough to color my opinion.

I *feel* that the CFB would have more teeth if 1 or 2 cylons reveal early and camp it with bonus activations. But the thought of that really rubs me the wrong way. That would eliminate the tension of the hidden traitor, which is my primary draw to this game. At that point I think I'd rather play X-Wing which does a much faster and better implementation of space combat. I'd even get to use all my beautiful BSG minis in place of Star Wars, so I still get to defend the Galactica from those horrible, ungrateful Cylons.

This discussion has got me a bit excited though. I *still* love the idea of the CFB, but haven't thought about it in a year. I'm down for a house rule and brushing the cobwebs off of some expansion material.

BTW, I've gotten so much enjoyment out of core BSG, I bought all expansions, and don't regret that one bit. Even when we play core rules, the extra characters and skill cards alone are fresh additions.
 
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downeymb wrote:
For me, BSG is not a space combat game, but all about hidden loyalties and the intrigue. There are plenty of things for pilots to do in between Cylon Attacks. With the CFB, the game turns into managing the attacks and takes up all of the actions. I find this dull.
I too enjoy the intrigue part of skill checks and other non-combat elements. However, having too many ships or not enough/too little of them can also ruin games. If there aren't enough ships, there's no pressure on humans. They have enough resources to deal with any cylon. With too many ships out, the cylons don't really need to do anything and will still come out ahead.


downeymb wrote:
If you really have a problem with the CAC frequency, you could do something like Pandemic seeding. Take two thirds of the CAC out (or whatever number you prefer), shuffle the remaining third into the crisis deck. Split the crisis deck into equal piles, then shuffle one of the remaining CACs into each deck, then stack them on top of each other. You get regular cylon attacks, but they are still unpredictable, and with the extra third shuffled in, you could still get a few in a row and never know how safe you might be.


This takes extra time to set up, which isn't that bad, but in a 2 to 5 hour game, the time can add up.

You'd want to ensure that not all the equal piles have exactly 1 CAC, as card counters will aggressively scout when they know a CAC is upcoming.

.

Another variant I heard was using "defcon". It takes elements from what folks will recognize is from the CFB's Pursuit track, but uses a d12 instead of the track. CAC and non-CAC cards are separate piles. Every time you draw a crisis, you instead roll the d8 to see if you get a CAC instead. If not, -1 on the d12. Else, put CAC into play, and +4 on the d12. These means you won't have multiple CAC in play at the same time, but this does mean they come out more consistently, while still having a random element.
 
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Kwijiboe
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ackmondual wrote:
downeymb wrote:
For me, BSG is not a space combat game, but all about hidden loyalties and the intrigue. There are plenty of things for pilots to do in between Cylon Attacks. With the CFB, the game turns into managing the attacks and takes up all of the actions. I find this dull.
I too enjoy the intrigue part of skill checks and other non-combat elements. However, having too many ships or not enough/too little of them can also ruin games. If there aren't enough ships, there's no pressure on humans. They have enough resources to deal with any cylon. With too many ships out, the cylons don't really need to do anything and will still come out ahead.


I've always maintained that this is NOT a problem with the game but instead a problem with player behavior. In the base game, Cylon ships arguably only effect the population resource. There is Food, Morale and Fuel to still consider! The base game is unique because you aren't actually playing against the game, you're playing against the other players!

Players should consider what their character's strengths and weaknesses are when it comes to targeting/protecting resources. Each and every character/role is balanced around two things: they are incredible at protecting one-two resources and have little to no influence over a different resource type.

Political Leaders FANTASTIC at preventing Food/Morale/Skill card losses but are horrible at preventing Fuel and Population loss. They are incredibly vulnerable to having their Titles stripped from them by the Admiralty and other Political leaders. There's a BIG reason Admin is a Politics/Leadership skill check.

Military Leaders FANTASTIC at preventing Fuel/Morale and often great at protecting Population because of Executive Orders and an increased likeliness to be located on the Command location but are horrible at preventing Food and skill card losses. They are also the MOST vulnerable to being brigged as they ordinarily cannot prevent the AQ check from succeeding; again there's a reason for AQ's Leaderships/Tactics requirements.

Piloting Characters are FANTASTIC at preventing Population loss and Fuel loss. They are HORRIBLE at preventing morale loss, but the game allows players to trade Population for Morale/Skill Cards through the FTL location. (Many players do not realize this is what FTL is actually doing.)

Galen Tyrol, the base game's only support character is a pseudo Political Leader. He also contributes to keeping Galactica's Fuel/Food tokens safe from harm--keeping Galactica fully repaired lessens the likelihood those resources are lost.

It is my opinion that players should be very lax at the beginning stages when it comes to preventing losses to resources that they are fantastic at securing. Admirals should consume fuel, presidents should consume food, Pilots should be allow some population be lost and Chief should be lax on his repair duties.

Essentially, to me, players should have a "no, you do it" philosophy when it comes to responsibilities. Classic example of this is the first 3-4 turns of the game: when typically the first player of the game will activate Command/jump into a viper to protect the civilians behind Galactica. However, that player could have drawn Quorum Cards as President, scouted the destination as Admieal to look for Fuel loss locations, drawn skill cards, etc.

Leave the responsibility to the player that must react to the threat (when raiders are one activation from killing civilians). At early stages of the game, depending on that players role/type, they may accept the loss because they know they can protect that resource later or they are a Cylon in disguise. If players reach a point when distrust rears its head or too much is too much, the base game characters are all designed to CONTROL and fight one another for control of the ship.

The core Rulebook actually hints at this aspect of gameplay. But again, the problem is players in my opinion. They believe this a cooperative game and selflessly waste their turns for little to no gain. If you first turn activate command/launch into a viper, all you've done is give the player that goes third or fourth (when the raiders would actually be a threat) a free action. You should also consider that, since you go first, you are at a huge disadvantage skill card wise--why lessen your advantage?

Again, this type of gameplay is only possible in the base game and why it is an absolute masterpiece. Get the players hating one another and distrustful off the bat: makes for a much more interesting game and solves the problem of waiting for the Cylons to attack.

The real drama of the game should between the players... Not the arrival of a CAC.
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M. B. Downey
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ackmondual wrote:
This takes extra time to set up, which isn't that bad, but in a 2 to 5 hour game, the time can add up.


Assign one player that responsibility while everyone else sets the rest up. If it is the player who chooses characters last it literally takes no extra time.

Quote:
You'd want to ensure that not all the equal piles have exactly 1 CAC, as card counters will aggressively scout when they know a CAC is upcoming.


That's why I said shuffle a third of the CACs into the deck before dividing it into piles. Or whatever ratio works for you. Then CACs still show up unpredictably but frequently. It really works very well and adds no extra fiddly rules, just one player doing that part of set up.
 
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vlesperance wrote:
The other half of the stall was the rule that when the cylons run out of a ship type, only one sector jumps in. With only 2 basestars, it was ALWAYS the basestar that jumped in. And I don't know if it was luck or statistics, but that basestar ALWAYS jumped in by itself. In the time it takes a single basestar to build a head of steam, we just ignored it and eventually jumped away with no combat. And the CFB was stalled the entire jump cycle, as usual.


Just making a note here, even if the lone basestar would jump in, that activation still advances the pursuit track. More often than not, it has also meant in our games that the rest of the fleet comes in due to pursuit track advancing to autojump.
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I think Exodus and Daybreak don't work together at all. As already explained, CFB and Treachery get into each others way. The skill-check abilities of Daybreak disturb the consequence crisis mechanic of Exodus and defense against treachery gets harder by dilution of skill decks.
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
downeymb wrote:
For me, BSG is not a space combat game, but all about hidden loyalties and the intrigue. There are plenty of things for pilots to do in between Cylon Attacks. With the CFB, the game turns into managing the attacks and takes up all of the actions. I find this dull.
I too enjoy the intrigue part of skill checks and other non-combat elements. However, having too many ships or not enough/too little of them can also ruin games. If there aren't enough ships, there's no pressure on humans. They have enough resources to deal with any cylon. With too many ships out, the cylons don't really need to do anything and will still come out ahead.


I've always maintained that this is NOT a problem with the game but instead a problem with player behavior. In the base game, Cylon ships arguably only effect the population resource. There is Food, Morale and Fuel to still consider! The base game is unique because you aren't actually playing against the game, you're playing against the other players!

Players should consider what their character's strengths and weaknesses are when it comes to targeting/protecting resources. Each and every character/role is balanced around two things: they are incredible at protecting one-two resources and have little to no influence over a different resource type.

Political Leaders FANTASTIC at preventing Food/Morale/Skill card losses but are horrible at preventing Fuel and Population loss. They are incredibly vulnerable to having their Titles stripped from them by the Admiralty and other Political leaders. There's a BIG reason Admin is a Politics/Leadership skill check.

Military Leaders FANTASTIC at preventing Fuel/Morale and often great at protecting Population because of Executive Orders and an increased likeliness to be located on the Command location but are horrible at preventing Food and skill card losses. They are also the MOST vulnerable to being brigged as they ordinarily cannot prevent the AQ check from succeeding; again there's a reason for AQ's Leaderships/Tactics requirements.

Piloting Characters are FANTASTIC at preventing Population loss and Fuel loss. They are HORRIBLE at preventing morale loss, but the game allows players to trade Population for Morale/Skill Cards through the FTL location. (Many players do not realize this is what FTL is actually doing.)

Galen Tyrol, the base game's only support character is a pseudo Political Leader. He also contributes to keeping Galactica's Fuel/Food tokens safe from harm--keeping Galactica fully repaired lessens the likelihood those resources are lost.

It is my opinion that players should be very lax at the beginning stages when it comes to preventing losses to resources that they are fantastic at securing. Admirals should consume fuel, presidents should consume food, Pilots should be allow some population be lost and Chief should be lax on his repair duties.

Essentially, to me, players should have a "no, you do it" philosophy when it comes to responsibilities. Classic example of this is the first 3-4 turns of the game: when typically the first player of the game will activate Command/jump into a viper to protect the civilians behind Galactica. However, that player could have drawn Quorum Cards as President, scouted the destination as Admieal to look for Fuel loss locations, drawn skill cards, etc.

Leave the responsibility to the player that must react to the threat (when raiders are one activation from killing civilians). At early stages of the game, depending on that players role/type, they may accept the loss because they know they can protect that resource later or they are a Cylon in disguise. If players reach a point when distrust rears its head or too much is too much, the base game characters are all designed to CONTROL and fight one another for control of the ship.

The core Rulebook actually hints at this aspect of gameplay. But again, the problem is players in my opinion. They believe this a cooperative game and selflessly waste their turns for little to no gain. If you first turn activate command/launch into a viper, all you've done is give the player that goes third or fourth (when the raiders would actually be a threat) a free action. You should also consider that, since you go first, you are at a huge disadvantage skill card wise--why lessen your advantage?

Again, this type of gameplay is only possible in the base game and why it is an absolute masterpiece. Get the players hating one another and distrustful off the bat: makes for a much more interesting game and solves the problem of waiting for the Cylons to attack.

The real drama of the game should between the players... Not the arrival of a CAC.
Everything you said can still be independent of how the cylon ships come out. If you really want to put such a high emphasis on just the players against each other, Werewolf, The Resistance, or Two Rooms And A Boom would've worked out just as fine.
 
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For our group, we've had the last several games be extremely close, and this is our current setup:

Base: all (except IC replacements)
Pegasus: Pegasus board, all non-treachery skill cards, all crises and super crises, all characters, all quorum cards. No new caprica.
Exodus: All characters, skill and quorum cards. Final five loaytly. NO CRISES. No CFB. No personal goals.
Daybreak: All charcters and skill cards. Treachery deck. Motives. Mutiny. No Demetrius/missions.

House rules:
If a card (crisis/skill/qurorum/mutiny) says "Damage Galactica" that damage cannnot be redirected to Pegasus. When basestars attack, they shoot twice, first at Galactica, then at Pegasus. This prevents the Damage Sponge Pegasus strategies.
Ignore the Exodus rules for an extra loyalty card. If your group starts using executions left and right to prove loyalty, I would fully expect Cylons using Daybreak treachery to punish you heavily for that with mutiny / brig / more treachery in destiny.
A Cylon who reveals may draw 2 super crises; keep one and place the other on the bottom of the super crisis deck. This does not apply when using the action on the Resurrection Ship, only if the Cylon reveals.
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Kwijiboe
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Quote:
Everything you said can still be independent of how the cylon ships come out. If you really want to put such a high emphasis on just the players against each other, Werewolf, The Resistance, or Two Rooms And A Boom would've worked out just as fine.


I've lost count how many times you've told me to go play Resistance, Werewolf and 2Rooms. We're not in those games' forums; stop bringing those games up.

Again, the problem is people view this game as a cooperative experience. An even bigger problem is that, when players play with the Cylon Fleet Board it re-affirms and demands this type of behavior. I'd argue that's the real reason I dislike the CFB, it demands my cooperation when I'm at the beginning stages of the game when I'm pondering whether I will remain human or Cylon.

However, people have adopted a cooperative, and all too human-friendly, strategy when it comes to the base game. There's a reason base game sessions flop: it's because, as you said, the game is dictated by the prevalence of CACs.

It all boils down to this, though...

I, too, noticed this phenomenon when I used to play the base game with a group that adopted pro-human tactics. I'd shrug my head and go, "huh, we won with 3 Fuel, 4 Food, 5 Morale and 5 Population."


What I've begun to realize is that, as a human President or Admiral or Pilot or Crew Chief, is that I could afford to lose resources and still win the game. If I was activated as Cylon or was Cylon from the beginning, the human crew no longer has access to that specific character's abilities to protect the resource that character is designed to defend. Additionally, since the base game's crisis deck is predictable and we will usually draw a large sample size between each game session there will be some level of consistency when it comes to which resources are targeted. Because of this consistency, anticipating resource loss is much much much easier to calculate.

Finally, it's not me that's putting a high emphasis on pitting players against one another. The Base Game environment is literally built around the theme of CONTROL. If you find my decisions, or any other players' decisions controversial, the base game provides the tools to CONTROL other players. Don't like what Admiral Adama is doing? Brig him, he's defenseless from the check anyhow and Tigh just hates Cylons. President Baltar being squirmy? Take the President from him. Starbuck just won't go out in space and do her damn job? Threaten to brig her for being subordinate. Is the President or Admiral making controversial decisions? "I don't think so," says Helo. Holy crap, look at all those cards in that Admiral's Quarters check against Admiral Adama? Suddenly, Chief's blind devotion makes leadership cards 0. Really need a Pilot and Boomers in the brig? Zarek knows a guy. Roslin fears Zarek might be plotting to take her Presidency? She puts her skilled politician abilities to the test and assigns the Admiral as Vice President. Hmm, I think I prefer separation of powers suddenly.

Players, however, prefer the status quo and do not engage with the tools the base game provides. Or, there's something menacing like the CFB, that puts such a high premium on actions, that the above scenarios cannot play out because the action loss CANNOT be afforded.

Again, the problem is player behavior with an emphasis on pro-human tactics and it is exacerbated by the increased premiums put on actions by the fleet board.

All in all, it turns the game into a pure cooperative experience. Until, of course, the game tells you to switch sides...
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