Gordon Watson
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I have had a good look back at the rule book and read through the FAQ and other rule threads here so this is largely (I hope) for confirmation - thanks in advance.

d10-1 Can I just absolutely confirm that one Soviet destroyer may ( or must?) finish it’s entire turn (exception RAS) before the other destroyer begins it’s turn. I am pretty sure this is the case but it does mean that if one destroyer sonar/attacks and obtains a hit and the other destroyer has not taken it’s turn yet and is within striking distance, it virtually guarantees a second hit – I ask because this seems very powerful for the Soviets.

d10-2 Can a container ship move it’s full move to move onto the same space as the supply ship then exchange containers with the supply ship, which can then do it’s full move, assuming it hasn’t moved already, or take the remainder of it’s move if it has only used part of it’s move allowance?

d10-3 Both container ships and the supply ship can move before and after an at-sea exchange of containers – thus both ships can part move to the same square do the exchange then continue moving up to their move allowance. Is this correct?

d10-4 I have found the options, turn structure for the Soviet destroyers a bit ‘muddled’ based on the rule book (and even the faq) – I think the following are all legal turns (assuming sufficient fuel and weather):-

a) Move – Sonar+attack – Move – RAS – Sonar-watch
b) Move – Station+Resupply – Move – RAS – Sonar-watch
c) Move – Sonar+attack – RAS – Sonar-watch
d) Move – Station+resupply
e) Move – RAS – Sonar-watch
f) Move – Sonar+attack – Move – Station+resupply
g) Move – Station+resupply – Move – Sonar+attack – RAS – sonar-watch
h) Move – Sonar+attack – Move – Station+resupply – Move – RAS – Sonar-watch
I) Move – Station+resupply – Move –– Sonar+attack – Move – RAS – Sonar-watch

- In all of the above cases the RAS is optional, as is the sonar-watch, except if ending in a station when you can’t.

- Also, in all cases, the first Move is not optional but can be a move of zero spaces, although that does still cost 10 fuel.

- And, apart from setting a sonar-watch, no ships involved in a RAS can do anything after it.

- And, all moves are paid for separately.

- Are intermediate ‘Moves’ needed (even if zero moves) between actions e.g. Sonar-attack and an RAS?

d10-5 A Soviet destroyer can fire a salvo, even if it doesn’t get a contact – the rule-book seems to contradict this but the designer stated on another thread it was allowable. Does this mean you could fire multiple salvos without an contact (restricted to one per contact zone)?

d10-6 Diagonal moves around land. This has been queried elsewhere given that diagonal moves are usually allowed – although in the faq the designer says only diagonal moves into Stations except the two corner stations which must be diagonal. The designer has said that diagonal moves when cutting across a land corner are allowed if there is clear water in terms of the portrayal on the board – whilst some of these are fairly clear (B21 to A22 clear water; B14 to A13 not clear) there are some which are fairly marginal and ambiguous (e.g. C15 to C14). I would prefer to house-rule this one way or another regardless of the clarity of the graphics so that both players know where they are and there are no differing interpretations. My inclination is to say that all diagonals across land corners are playable – do people think this affects balance, making it easier for NATO?
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Andrew Benford
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You seem to have got it sorted but I'll answer each bit separately for completeness and clarity and with the relevant rule references.

domus_ludorum wrote:

d10-1 Can I just absolutely confirm that one Soviet destroyer may ( or must?) finish it’s entire turn (exception RAS) before the other destroyer begins it’s turn. I am pretty sure this is the case but it does mean that if one destroyer sonar/attacks and obtains a hit and the other destroyer has not taken it’s turn yet and is within striking distance, it virtually guarantees a second hit – I ask because this seems very powerful for the Soviets.


As it states at the start of the 'Soviet Actions' section of the rules on page 10, when it is the Soviet's turn "They may move their ships in any order but some of the available options prevent them from taking others." One destroyer may therefore complete its moves before the other destroyer moves. Yes this can be powerful and if the destroyers are well placed they can indeed achieve two hits but this can be mitigated for NATO when the weather mechanic is played which brings thermal layers into play. [See also page 14 of the "History & Strategy" booklet: Carrying out attacks - 2nd bullet point "Coordinated attacks by destroyers by firing mortar bomb salvos into the same area of water will increase the chances of achieving a hit on a submarine and can be deadly in shallow water"].

domus_ludorum wrote:

d10-2 Can a container ship move it’s full move to move onto the same space as the supply ship then exchange containers with the supply ship, which can then do it’s full move, assuming it hasn’t moved already, or take the remainder of it’s move if it has only used part of it’s move allowance?


Yes. The main constraint on the Supply ship is when conducting a RAS with a destroyer(s) which ends its move. All three ships of the logistic fleet are also constrained by not being able to leave an ice-station in the same turn that they enter it.

domus_ludorum wrote:

d10-3 Both container ships and the supply ship can move before and after an at-sea exchange of containers – thus both ships can part move to the same square do the exchange then continue moving up to their move allowance. Is this correct?


Yes

domus_ludorum wrote:

d10-4 I have found the options, turn structure for the Soviet destroyers a bit ‘muddled’ based on the rule book (and even the faq) – I think the following are all legal turns (assuming sufficient fuel and weather):-

a) Move – Sonar+attack – Move – RAS – Sonar-watch
b) Move – Station+Resupply – Move – RAS – Sonar-watch
c) Move – Sonar+attack – RAS – Sonar-watch
d) Move – Station+resupply
e) Move – RAS – Sonar-watch
f) Move – Sonar+attack – Move – Station+resupply
g) Move – Station+resupply – Move – Sonar+attack – RAS – sonar-watch
h) Move – Sonar+attack – Move – Station+resupply – Move – RAS – Sonar-watch
I) Move – Station+resupply – Move –– Sonar+attack – Move – RAS – Sonar-watch

- In all of the above cases the RAS is optional, as is the sonar-watch, except if ending in a station when you can’t.


Yes all these are legal. Basically the Soviets can move their ships, destroyers and logistic fleet, using many permutations of moves within their individual maximum squares per turn and taking into account the weather and 'move ending cases' e.g. RAS.

domus_ludorum wrote:

- Also, in all cases, the first Move is not optional but can be a move of zero spaces, although that does still cost 10 fuel.


The "0 square = 10% fuel" only applies to a destroyer that doesn't move at all during a turn. This is the same as for a submarine which NATO decide to leave stationary for a turn, or more, in a "stopped trim".

domus_ludorum wrote:

- And, apart from setting a sonar-watch, no ships involved in a RAS can do anything after it.


Correct. Rules page 12: "After conducting a RAS move the ships involved cannot do anything else this turn, but the Destroyer may set up a sonar watch as normal."

domus_ludorum wrote:

- And, all moves are paid for separately.


Yes, correct. Rules page 10: "A Destroyer may move, take an action such as a sonar search or a refuel at a Station, then move again. Each move should be counted separately in terms of fuel use, but the total distance moved in a turn must not exceed 18 squares."

domus_ludorum wrote:

- Are intermediate ‘Moves’ needed (even if zero moves) between actions e.g. Sonar-attack and an RAS?


I'm not completely sure what you mean here but will reiterate that the 0 move only applies to a destroyer that doesn't move at all during a particular turn.

domus_ludorum wrote:

d10-5 A Soviet destroyer can fire a salvo, even if it doesn’t get a contact – the rule-book seems to contradict this but the designer stated on another thread it was allowable. Does this mean you could fire multiple salvos without an contact (restricted to one per contact zone)?


Yes a salvo can be fired if there is no contact; the usual case is where you'd expect to have a detection but you don't get one probably because the submarine is hiding below a thermal layer. [See page 14 of the "History & Strategy" booklet: Weather reports & forecasts - 1st bullet point "Is there a layer in the area? If so the submarine that you can't detect but think is there may be hiding below the layer - perhaps a bomb salvo set to explode below the layer could be successful"].

The limitation of firing one salvo for each contact gained in a turn is for balance and is to prevent a destroyer with a full salvo load detecting a submarine and firing three salvos and sinking the boat in that single turn - not good for gameplay! As discussed earlier, the most number of hits that can be achieved in a single turn on one submarine are two as a result of a well coordinated attack by both destroyers.

domus_ludorum wrote:

d10-6 Diagonal moves around land. This has been queried elsewhere given that diagonal moves are usually allowed – although in the faq the designer says only diagonal moves into Stations except the two corner stations which must be diagonal. The designer has said that diagonal moves when cutting across a land corner are allowed if there is clear water in terms of the portrayal on the board – whilst some of these are fairly clear (B21 to A22 clear water; B14 to A13 not clear) there are some which are fairly marginal and ambiguous (e.g. C15 to C14). I would prefer to house-rule this one way or another regardless of the clarity of the graphics so that both players know where they are and there are no differing interpretations. My inclination is to say that all diagonals across land corners are playable – do people think this affects balance, making it easier for NATO?


The way I play this is if the diagonal intersection of the squares is visible then a piece can move diagonally through that intersection. If the intersection is obscured by artwork, as is the case for ice station entrances A, B, C & E, then a diagonal move cannot be made. So in your example: B14 to A13 I would play that as not allowed (intersection obscured). The application of a house rule is of course perfectly acceptable.

I hope this covers everything for you and that I haven't missed anything - I'm sure you'll shout if I have!

[Edits 1-3: better phrasing!]
[Edit 4: added text of quoted bullet points from History & Strategy booklet]
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Gordon Watson
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Andrew, thanks for taking the time for these responses. I wouldn't have picked the zero movement thing from the rule-book.

Looking forward to the next game.
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Andrew Benford
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domus_ludorum wrote:
I wouldn't have picked the zero movement thing from the rule-book.

OK Gordon. I think I see where the confusion possibly lies: Page 10 Each individual move action has a fuel cost as per the following grid:. I can see that it would be clearer if the word 'action' wasn't in this sentence and it said "Each individual move has a fuel cost as per the following grid." [NOTED!]

When a destroyer carries out a move involving more than one activity (e.g. sonar search and a sonar watch) the squares moved to each action point are paid for with fuel and the action takes place on the last square of that movement; i.e. these 'last squares' are not zero move square moves, as I think you have read it, but rather are the last part of the first and second move elements respectively. [This is different to the situation, referred to in my earlier answer, where a destroyer hasn't moved and remains on the same square throughout a turn and, for example, conducts a search and then sets sonar watch; the destroyer hasn't moved to conduct these activities but is still "burning fuel" keeping the ship functioning and for this there would be a fuel cost while stationary (10% fuel).]

So an example non-stationary move by a destroyer would be:

Move 3 squares then 'Search & Attack' + Move 5 squares then set 'Sonar Watch'
In terms of squares and fuel this would translate to: Move 3 squares (10% fuel) + move 5 squares (15% fuel). Total fuel used: 25%

[It would NOT BE, as I think you imagined: 3 squares (10%) & 0 square (10%) + 5 squares (15%) & 0 square (10%) ]

I realise that I've made an assumption here about how you interpreted the rules so I hope my assumption is correct and that this is now clearer for you.


Good luck with your next mission.
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