$30.00
$15.00
$20.00
$5.00
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

One Night Ultimate Werewolf» Forums » Rules

Subject: Village Idiot completely broken rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Brett F
msg tools
Anyone else play with the village idiot? This card moves everyone's tiles to either the left or right, except their own. Problem with this is that all the werewolves can basically know if they are no longer a werewolf or not and then out all the werewolves.

Has anyone ran into this? Has anyone worked out a solution for this or should I just shelve the village idiot for all eternity?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The Village Idiot is a chaotic role. It works OK with low player counts, but leads to insanity at higher ones.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Drog
United States
Ponte Vedra Beach
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Note the Village Idiot doesn't HAVE to move all the cards left or right. He MAY do it.

Very important as that's where the bluffing and fun lies.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next total solar eclipse holiday in 2017 in the USA.
mbmbmbmbmb
mdrog2 wrote:
Note the Village Idiot doesn't HAVE to move all the cards left or right. He MAY do it.

That. The same as Robber and Troublemaker.

Also, the Village Idiot doesn't want to claim to be the Village Idiot without getting information first, just like any other role.

(The Village Idiot isn't the most favorite role though.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Alspach
United States
Louisville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Preorder One Night Ultimate Werewolf now from www.beziergames.com
badge
One Night Ultimate Werewolf
mbmbmb
And I'm not sure how the werewolves would know if they are still werewolves or not...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Drury
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
The only stupid question... is the one you don't ask!
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
A strategy I love playing with the Village Idiot, is the double bluff.

When prompted by the app to move the cards, I stand-up, or reach over and do the motions to move the cards around, but I don't actually move any cards.

Then when the timing is right, I claim Village Idiot and that I moved the cards. Often, this will cause the Werewolves to shout out in a frenzy who is now a Werewolf.

I then declare that I was in fact the Village Idiot, but moving the cards was a bluff, hence, the Werewolves are still with their original owners. It's the best part of the VI role IMO.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Kellett
United Kingdom
Preston
Lancashire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
blipadouzi wrote:
A strategy I love playing with the Village Idiot, is the double bluff.

When prompted by the app to move the cards, I stand-up, or reach over and do the motions to move the cards around, but I don't actually move any cards.

Then when the timing is right, I claim Village Idiot and that I moved the cards. Often, this will cause the Werewolves to shout out in a frenzy who is now a Werewolf.

I then declare that I was in fact the Village Idiot, but moving the cards was a bluff, hence, the Werewolves are still with their original owners. It's the best part of the VI role IMO.


I won the last game we played by doing this very thing It was horribly devious and a wonderful win when the werewolves proudly announced who they thought now has their cards.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Beiter
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Just don't forget which way you shifted the cards!

There are stories of games getting very muddy when the idiot is forgetful.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Albano
United States
Bloomfield
NJ
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
To me, it's not that it's completely broken, it's that it just isn't fun.

It adds too much confusion for its worth. At 3 or 4 players, fine. But anything above that is just too much chaos for its worth. It really takes away bluffing power from players because there is just so much information and misinformation to sort through.

If people like it, fine.

But I hate it. I think it's one of the worst designed roles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
msg tools
mb
Remember the Village Idiot has three options: left, right or no change. They can bluff as much, or as little, as they like.

And they can claim to have been something other than the Village Idiot. And other people can falsely claim to have been the Village Idiot.

It strikes me that the Insomniac may have something important to say...

(Then again, I've not yet played with the Village Idiot role. It intrigues me, but for now other Daybreak roles such as Alpha Wolf, Witch, Sentinel and Paranormal Investigator have piqued our curiosity more.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoff Conn
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I am not a fan of the role, not because its broken, but it simply affects the game too much. Its like a crazy troublemaker...its either entirely chaotic or has too much control because it moves every other card but its own.

In short, I don't use it.

I think a variant on what it does could be helpful here. What first comes to mind is version of the drunk, but taking someone else's role instead of from the centre, without looking at the new role. A dumb robber, if you will.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Drury
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
The only stupid question... is the one you don't ask!
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
On a positive note... it seems the new Rascal role in One Night Ultimate Alien (currently on Kickstarter) is a pretty decent fix/replacement for the Village Idiot.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Beiter
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
blipadouzi wrote:
On a positive note... it seems the new Rascal role in One Night Ultimate Alien (currently on Kickstarter) is a pretty decent fix/replacement for the Village Idiot.


I agree, the Rascal adds some chaos without throwing the whole game into a chaotic storm.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
For the couple of posts regarding the Rascal above, I think it should be pointed out that he may not actually be able to do what I made him do in our first PBF of ONUA...

I took from the description that he might be able to act like a Village Idiot, in the same way that he can act like a Robber or Troublemaker, so one of the options I randomised was for him to move all odd players or all even players. It's unknown (except by Ted of course) whether the app will allow him to get that ability in the real game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cameron McKenzie
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Generally speaking, as long as original wolf or wolves believe that the Village Idiot moved the cards, it doesn't really matter whether he did or not - a werewolf will be caught.

Since the Village Idiot wants to catch werewolves, he wants to seem as credible as possible when he says he moved the cards. So, he might as well just move the cards.

He pretty much gains no advantage by declining to move cards and then bluff that he did move them. Even if he does do this and the bluff is successful, it's still doesn't make for a very interesting outcome (a wolf outs himself instead of someone else, which still kills the deduction aspect)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
msg tools
mb
Trouble is, bluff can go as many layers deep as the players like. Anything someone is taking it for granted that you'll do, you can subvert.

If you envisage that the Village Idiot will move the cards for definite, you can take this into account when choosing your own behaviour. Also, you can impersonate the Village Idiot more easily. Or say you're a Werewolf when you're not, because you expect to become one. Or say you're a Werewolf when you're the Tanner, because you expect to be disbelieved.

Meanwhile, there's the Insomniac and the Revealer to act after the Village Idiot. They'll shed some light on the situation.

And once people have got used to the Village Idiot always moving things, a Village Idiot who doesn't move things might be able to catch someone in a lie by not moving them then, in the morning, innocently asking "who was the Village Idiot?".

And so on.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
mbmbmb
MasterDinadan wrote:
Generally speaking, as long as original wolf or wolves believe that the Village Idiot moved the cards, it doesn't really matter whether he did or not - a werewolf will be caught.

Since the Village Idiot wants to catch werewolves, he wants to seem as credible as possible when he says he moved the cards. So, he might as well just move the cards.

He pretty much gains no advantage by declining to move cards and then bluff that he did move them. Even if he does do this and the bluff is successful, it's still doesn't make for a very interesting outcome (a wolf outs himself instead of someone else, which still kills the deduction aspect)
Agree with all of this. There is no "bluffing" when it comes to moving or not moving the cards. The outcome from the VI's POV is exactly the same, so it doesn't matter either way, so why not move? Or not. It doesn't matter. Choose randomly. Same logic holds for direction.

To ensure you win as a non-wolf, non-VI player, you have to bluff the role yourself in order to cast aspersions on the real VI or bluff wolf. So when playing with VI, it's an "all claim VI and/or wolf" game basically. Fun for a few laughs, sure, but not a particularly compelling role compared to most others.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
msg tools
mb
(Again, I've not actually played with Village Idiot yet, partly because so many other roles look so much more intriguing, but...)

It seems there are quite a few subtleties that could keep the game interesting. For example, fairly often there will be two Werewolves sitting next to one another: even if they believe the Village Idiot has rotated, they have to believe the appropriate direction before they'll throw the other Werewolf under the bus. And what about the Tanner? The person with the Sentinel's shield? The Insomniac knows what they've become, so could well be able to start bluffing better, sooner.

Meanwhile, in an appreciable proportion of games the Village Idiot will be one of the three central cards. And maybe the Seer knows this. Or a lone wolf. What if somebody claims to have seen the Village Idiot in the middle?

Hmm. Now I want to try it, at least once or twice!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
msg tools
mb
Oooh! Also: wouldn't an Alpha Wolf in a Village Idiot game convert one of their two immediate neighbours? And wouldn't the threat of that keep people on their toes somewhat?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Colin Dyke
msg tools
I noticed this problem when I first got this expansion and my fix was to make sure that at least 2 other roles that move cards around are also in the role set for 5+ players. This way the wolf might have been moved by the village idiot but the robber/troublemaker/witch/drunk/Alpha Wolf/Gremlin might have moved it back to you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.