J.D. Hall
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Interesting speech by a politician apparently headed for retirement:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/08/europe/france-hollande-isl...

Looks like the French president wants to have an Islam similar to that we have in America -- more homegrown, if you will. But Americans, for all the BS lefties, righties, and other outrage brewers spew out, is actually quite a welcoming place for foreigners. Also, our culture is a jumbled, ever-shifting mess (and we love it!) unlike the long cultural history that Europeans, Asians, and Africans have.
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jeremy cobert
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remorseless1 wrote:
Looks like the French president wants to have an Islam similar to that we have in America -- more homegrown, if you will.


I wonder if they were this accommodating of the Nazi's back in the day ? Well, whats the worst that can a happen if you allow people who want to kill you into your house.
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jeremycobert wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Looks like the French president wants to have an Islam similar to that we have in America -- more homegrown, if you will.


I wonder if they were this accommodating of the Nazi's back in the day ? Well, whats the worst that can a happen if you allow people who want to kill you into your house.


Nothing like slandering an entire religion based on one's own religious bigotry. You do realize the refugees are fleeing radical islam, or are facts somehow beneath a Trump minion
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jeremycobert wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Looks like the French president wants to have an Islam similar to that we have in America -- more homegrown, if you will.


I wonder if they were this accommodating of the Nazi's back in the day ? Well, whats the worst that can a happen if you allow people who want to kill you into your house.
Petain.

Does that answer your question?
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Looks like the French president wants to have an Islam similar to that we have in America -- more homegrown, if you will.


I wonder if they were this accommodating of the Nazi's back in the day ? Well, whats the worst that can a happen if you allow people who want to kill you into your house.

Do you ever allow your brain to moderate what you type?
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remorseless1 wrote:
Interesting speech by a politician apparently headed for retirement:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/08/europe/france-hollande-isl...

Looks like the French president wants to have an Islam similar to that we have in America -- more homegrown, if you will. But Americans, for all the BS lefties, righties, and other outrage brewers spew out, is actually quite a welcoming place for foreigners. Also, our culture is a jumbled, ever-shifting mess (and we love it!) unlike the long cultural history that Europeans, Asians, and Africans have.


Not having read the article, the premise does make sense. Right now the greatest influence in the direction of Islam in Europe are Wahabbist Imam's and schools payed for by our dear friends in Saudi Arabia. That school of thought is NOT conducive to integration within western Europe*. In fact it is stimulating a post 9/11 Islam revival of sorts, which sees plenty of people 'returning' to the faith. A process further stimulated by virulant anti-islams rethoric on the part of (some of the 'natives').

Your comparison to the states is not on point. It's anatema to the French to look to the US for examples on such matters. Moreover the pressure for immigrants to assimilate into the mainstream is, in many ways, considerably stronger in the US. But I digress.



* which is not to deny that most Muslims integrate just fine.
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slatersteven wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Looks like the French president wants to have an Islam similar to that we have in America -- more homegrown, if you will.


I wonder if they were this accommodating of the Nazi's back in the day ? Well, whats the worst that can a happen if you allow people who want to kill you into your house.
Petain.

Does that answer your question?

I think that's spelt with a U in his case.
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Daniel Edwards
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I don't know about you guys but isn't it getting a bit tiring when one of the Finest derails the thread at post 2 or 3 and the majority then indulges that for a page or two?
 
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Well, he's,not wrong. When you treat people like outsiders they feel like outsiders and don't get invested in society.
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Shadrach wrote:
Well, he's,not wrong. When you treat people like outsiders they feel like outsiders and don't get invested in society.


The burkini ban being a glaring example of what not to do.
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J.D. Hall
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Venga2 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Interesting speech by a politician apparently headed for retirement:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/08/europe/france-hollande-isl...

Looks like the French president wants to have an Islam similar to that we have in America -- more homegrown, if you will. But Americans, for all the BS lefties, righties, and other outrage brewers spew out, is actually quite a welcoming place for foreigners. Also, our culture is a jumbled, ever-shifting mess (and we love it!) unlike the long cultural history that Europeans, Asians, and Africans have.


Not having read the article, the premise does make sense. Right now the greatest influence in the direction of Islam in Europe are Wahabbist Imam's and schools payed for by our dear friends in Saudi Arabia. That school of thought is NOT conducive to integration within western Europe*. In fact it is stimulating a post 9/11 Islam revival of sorts, which sees plenty of people 'returning' to the faith. A process further stimulated by virulant anti-islams rethoric on the part of (some of the 'natives').

Your comparison to the states is not on point. It's anatema to the French to look to the US for examples on such matters. Moreover the pressure for immigrants to assimilate into the mainstream is, in many ways, considerably stronger in the US. But I digress.



* which is not to deny that most Muslims integrate just fine.

Ah, the Pride of the French*! I wasn't saying Hollande wants to follow the US's example (which reminds me, give us back all our jeans, rock and roll, hip-hop and rap!), merely pointing out that American Muslims tend to be more of the homegrown variety that help refugees and immigrants adjust better. Islam really got going in the US in the 1960s when many black Americans converted to Islam. And obviously you haven't been to the US. Sure, if you watch the news or read web sites, you'd think immigrants and non-Christians are huddled in ghettos, trying to avoid the next pogrom. In reality, Americans generally like people who come to the US to live and work.

But let's all be honest: being Muslim in a non-Muslim country right now is no walk in the park.

*--I can say that because I'm half French.
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Hey I am not knocking on the US. Great place, nice people, and it was fun to visit. I agree that the experience of immigrating in the US or France is a completely different one, but not in the way you envision it. Also completely different situation vis a vis Muslims and Muslim immigrants. So why compare?

Further on the derail track:

Quote:
you'd think immigrants and non-Christians are huddled in ghettos, trying to avoid the next pogrom.
I'm pretty confident that I never said or implied that.
 
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David Dearlove
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France is very prescriptive about what constitutes Frenchness. This is problematic for some French people. I haven't read the speech but did Hollande also acknowledge that the French are also going to have to accept that certain things are now French that weren't historically?
I used to work with a guy with a Frenchified Indian name whose grandfather had come from one of the French colonies in India. He didn't even know what language his ancestors spoke and said that interest in his past had been discouraged. It seemed very odd to me.
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J.D. Hall
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Venga2 wrote:
Hey I am not knocking on the US. Great place, nice people, and it was fun to visit. I agree that the experience of immigrating in the US or France is a completely different one, but not in the way you envision it. Also completely different situation vis a vis Muslims and Muslim immigrants. So why compare?

Further on the derail track:

Quote:
you'd think immigrants and non-Christians are huddled in ghettos, trying to avoid the next pogrom.
I'm pretty confident that I never said or implied that.

Actually, I said it was the American mass media that implied that.
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remorseless1 wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
Hey I am not knocking on the US. Great place, nice people, and it was fun to visit. I agree that the experience of immigrating in the US or France is a completely different one, but not in the way you envision it. Also completely different situation vis a vis Muslims and Muslim immigrants. So why compare?

Further on the derail track:

Quote:
you'd think immigrants and non-Christians are huddled in ghettos, trying to avoid the next pogrom.
I'm pretty confident that I never said or implied that.

Actually, I said it was the American mass media that implied that.
Ahem. Well, reading comrehension fail. My bad.
 
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J.D. Hall
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Venga2 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
Hey I am not knocking on the US. Great place, nice people, and it was fun to visit. I agree that the experience of immigrating in the US or France is a completely different one, but not in the way you envision it. Also completely different situation vis a vis Muslims and Muslim immigrants. So why compare?

Further on the derail track:

Quote:
you'd think immigrants and non-Christians are huddled in ghettos, trying to avoid the next pogrom.
I'm pretty confident that I never said or implied that.

Actually, I said it was the American mass media that implied that.
Ahem. Well, reading comrehension fail. My bad.

I can't speak more than five words in French. You're way ahead of me, cowboy.
 
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remorseless1 wrote:
Also, our culture is a jumbled, ever-shifting mess (and we love it!) unlike the long cultural history that Europeans, Asians, and Africans have.
Say whaaat? I think you'll find this is not the case for Britain:

Quote:
Modern Britons are descended mainly from the varied ethnic groups that settled in the British Isles in and before the 11th century: Prehistoric, Celtic, Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Normans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_people
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AdrianPHague wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Also, our culture is a jumbled, ever-shifting mess (and we love it!) unlike the long cultural history that Europeans, Asians, and Africans have.
Say whaaat? I think you'll find this is not the case for Britain:

Quote:
Modern Britons are descended mainly from the varied ethnic groups that settled in the British Isles in and before the 11th century: Prehistoric, Celtic, Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Normans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_people


That's probably what remorseless means by a "long cultural history"; the problem with the sentence is that it seems to suggest that a "long cultural history" and a "jumbled, ever-shifting mess" are mutually exclusive, when generally they go hand in hand.
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Kumitedad wrote:
Nothing like slandering an entire religion based on one's own religious bigotry. You do realize the refugees are fleeing radical islam, or are facts somehow beneath a Trump minion


Yeah, they really are just trying to fit in and not destroy the western culture. The are just trying to fit in, by blowing people up, its in their culture and we cant judge ! http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37312538

Oh dont worry, once they get here and assimilate like they have in the USA, they will eventually come around to the whole "live and let live" thing. In fact, lets take a poll and see how many still support Sharia law..
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide...

Holy fuck, only a majority of them do..

Well at least here are not that many of them.Estimates of the numbers of Muslims currently living in the US range anywhere from 5 million to 12 million. That means anywhere from 1.25 to 3 MILLION Muslim Americans are good with jihad and killing you. Because you’re not a Muslim. Therefore, you should die. Sharia.


 
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jeremycobert wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
Nothing like slandering an entire religion based on one's own religious bigotry. You do realize the refugees are fleeing radical islam, or are facts somehow beneath a Trump minion


Yeah, they really are just trying to fit in and not destroy the western culture. The are just trying to fit in, by blowing people up, its in their culture and we cant judge ! http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37312538

Oh dont worry, once they get here and assimilate like they have in the USA, they will eventually come around to the whole "live and let live" thing. In fact, lets take a poll and see how many still support Sharia law..
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide...

Holy fuck, only a majority of them do..

Well at least here are not that many of them.Estimates of the numbers of Muslims currently living in the US range anywhere from 5 million to 12 million. That means anywhere from 1.25 to 3 MILLION Muslim Americans are good with jihad and killing you. Because you’re not a Muslim. Therefore, you should die. Sharia.





Oh goody. Time once again to trot out a flawed online opt in poll run by a group cashing in on Islamaphobia. Or as someone else put it

"CSP’s survey was a non-probability based, opt-in online survey, administered by the conservative group the Polling Company/Woman Trend, a small Washington-based agency that has collaborated with CSP on other occasions to produce surveys about Islam and Muslims. (We learned this after reaching out to the Polling Company to get more details about their methodology, which wasn’t released to the public when Gaffney began promoting the survey’s findings.)

According to the body that sets ethical standards for polling, the American Association for Public Opinion Research (AAPOR), opt-in surveys cannot be considered representative of the intended population, in this case Muslims. The AAPOR says that in these cases, “the pollster has no idea who is responding to the question” and that these kind of “polls do not have such a ‘grounded statistical tie’ to the population.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-lean/heres-why-you-shou...

But thanks for your public attempt to whip up religious hatred against your fellow citizen based on lies.

Any more hateful bigotry you need to get out of your system, or has this display satisfy your lust for prejudice for the time being?
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jeremycobert wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Looks like the French president wants to have an Islam similar to that we have in America -- more homegrown, if you will.


I wonder if they were this accommodating of the Nazi's back in the day ? Well, whats the worst that can a happen if you allow people who want to kill you into your house.


Why are the streets of Paris lined with trees?

So the Nazis could march in the shade.
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Kumitedad wrote:

Any more hateful bigotry you need to get out of your system, or has this display satisfy your lust for prejudice for the time being?


Sure, its an obvious attempt by me to point out that a violent culture may want to commit the violence against you that they claim that they want to commit.
I know , that makes me a monster.



Perhaps the moderate side of Islam will chime in.. oh god damn it.



France has been one of the most tolerant nation to Islam and now they seem to have an attack every month. How well has that worked out for them ?
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J.D. Hall
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jeremycobert wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:

Any more hateful bigotry you need to get out of your system, or has this display satisfy your lust for prejudice for the time being?


Sure, its an obvious attempt by me to point out that a violent culture may want to commit the violence against you that they claim that they want to commit.
I know , that makes me a monster.



Perhaps the moderate side of Islam will chime in.. oh god damn it.



France has been one of the most tolerant nation to Islam and now they seem to have an attack every month. How well has that worked out for them ?

Cobert is RIGHT! We need to kill all Muslims. Jeremy, we'll let you take a machete to all the four-year-old girls we find. No, no need to thank me.
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remorseless1 wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
Hey I am not knocking on the US. Great place, nice people, and it was fun to visit. I agree that the experience of immigrating in the US or France is a completely different one, but not in the way you envision it. Also completely different situation vis a vis Muslims and Muslim immigrants. So why compare?

Further on the derail track:

Quote:
you'd think immigrants and non-Christians are huddled in ghettos, trying to avoid the next pogrom.
I'm pretty confident that I never said or implied that.

Actually, I said it was the American mass media that implied that.
Ahem. Well, reading comrehension fail. My bad.

I can't speak more than five words in French. You're way ahead of me, cowboy.
No worries, neither can I. (horizontal bars and all that, n'est ce pas?)
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J.D. Hall
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Uhm, sure? laugh
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