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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: Dog's Duplicate Design (3D) Challenge #2: SCIENCE BROS rss

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Thanks to everyone who made the "All Wolverine, All the Time!" Challenge a success!

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1599536/dogs-duplicate-desi...

Your reward for all that hard work is ... more work! We're not done showing that Heroes can be "repeated" while still being fun, flavorful and useful. Welcome to Dog's Duplicate Design (3D) Challenge #2: SCIENCE BROS.

It began with some bonding over energy signatures, and ended with a massive save of the billionaire philanthropist as he fell from a wormhole. It continued in Kelly Sue DeConnick's "Avengers Assemble" series, and now you too can control the fates of Iron Man and the Hulk!

1) You will make one Iron Man set and one Hulk set. Despite the title of the Challenge, the two sets do not necessarily have to interact or be thematic with each other, though you may want them to. Read on.

2) We're focusing here on the great breadth of powers, personalities and whatnot from these storied characters. To that end each set will have one Divided card. The Divided card can either be a common or the uncommon.

Each set will ALSO have an ALTERNATE common or uncommon. This is an idea introduced in the Legendary: Big Trouble in Little China base game released at Gen Con this year. It is what it sounds like -- a way to customize your 14 hero cards by swapping out a set of commons or uncommons, depending on what the particular game set-up is. Read more in these design notes on Big Trouble:

http://robheinsoo.blogspot.com/2016/07/hero-buddies-extra-he...

Big Trouble only had alternate commons. In 3D Challenge #2, you may make either an alternate common OR uncommon.

So both your Hulk and Iron Man sets with have either a Divided uncommon and an alternate common, or a Divided common and an alternate uncommon. You'll see in the above design notes why I say you may want the two sets to have some kind of interaction with each other. Don't feel that it's necessary, though; if the sets stand strong on their own, that's fine.



3) The idea here is to show just how varied in powers and personalities the two characters are, so no use of alternate heroes like Jim Rhodes, Pepper Potts, Red Hulk etc. is allowed. Those are great characters, but we're focusing on Tony and Bruce. To put a finer point on it, the Divided cards should be of the Tigra and Goliath type, not the Cloak and Dagger type.

4) Each set will have at least two keywords that have appeared in previous Marvel Legendary releases. Both sets can use the same keywords, but I'd probably advise against it. Referencing each other is one thing, but being that directly linked might be a bit too easy. But, as always, if you think you can make it work, go for it!

In fact, go for anything! These are all the restrictions on 3D Challenge #2! Use more keywords if you want; hell, MAKE UP some keywords if you want!



5) Some words about originality and theme: These sets are meant to give a lot of options to players and to highlight a lot of the histories of these characters. You probably have an idea of what that means already (i.e. different armors for Iron Man and different personalities for Hulk), but it might be good to consider something less than obvious. We've seen Hulkbusters in the Variants forum, so there may be more fertile ground elsewhere. Of course the standard caveat still holds: If it works, it works.

*Probably not a good idea to just throw random concepts onto your cards. Ideally, there should be thematic reasons for the alternate cards, and they should have some kind of interaction/meaning for the rest of the set. Same thing with Divided cards, but we've seen how they work at showing off opposites, too. Go nuts with your designs, but keep those things in mind.*

6) Because there are so many existing customs already, EVERYONE is eligible to participate in 3D Challenge #2. But don't just copy something that's come before, even if it's your own work. I'll be checking! ninja

7) I don't know how most people make their customs, but since fostorial's amazing Legenedit does not have support for Divided cards yet, I cannot stress enough that IMAGES ARE NOT REQUIRED. Text is just fine. The concepts are what matter!

8) As in Challenge #1, $10 in Geek Gold goes to the winner! And probably some to the other participants, too! As this one is a bit trickier than the first, you'll have extra time. The deadline for 3D Challenge #2 is 8:00 pm eastern time on Wednesday, November 23, the day before Thanksgiving. Good luck!



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Question: Can we have more than one Divided card per set?
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Sure! As long as you have the alternate cards, too.

What, this ain't tough enough?
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Ranger Rob
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Ideas about a Hulk v.s Hulkbuster set running though my head.

Dual cards except for the rare.

Rare is "Collateral Damage" which adds fight for each other Hulk and Iron man card played this turn...

hmmm...
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RangerRob24 wrote:
Rare is "Collateral Damage" which adds fight for each other Hulk and Iron man card played this turn...


hahahahaha ... much mirth from me.

Let me explain: You have no idea what I had just tried to name my Hulk rare ...

(And I had just decided against it, too, because it's already the name of an Ambition card.)
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Tony Stark and Bruce Banner are both haunted by something much darker within them, and at the point in their lives represented by the following decks they are still struggling against their darker aspect. Each of them is divided against himself. With each of these decks, the idea is that, as you play the game, these characters will grow as characters. With the Hulk, his Banner side helps to mitigate the damage you're doing to other players with his Hulk side, but only once you invest in his Banner side. On the other hand, with Stark the more you deny that next "draw card" effect and save at least three bystanders, the sooner you unlock powerful combinations with his other cards.

THE INCREDIBLE HULK
Defenders

Bruce Banner sometimes has a kind of control over the Hulk, but at this early point it is a much more extreme version of Jekyll and Hyde. Banner struggles to stop hurting himself and those around him---and meanwhile "The Other Guy" keeps him from any lasting harm. As such, his powerful attack cards tend to have Dodge and yet are mitigated by the Demolish mechanic, whereas some of his other cards---each of which depicts Bruce Banner---are designed specifically to turn this great drawback into a positive thing.

Rare: The Other Guy
(Hulk)
Strength
Demolish each player three times.
Instinct Instinct Instinct Instinct: You may instead Demolish each player only once.
10 Attack
Cost: 8

Uncommon: Brutish/Brilliant
Brutish
(Hulk)
Strength
3 Attack
Cost: 5
-----------
Brilliant
(Bruce Banner)
Instinct
Look at the top three cards of your deck. Draw one, discard one, and put one on the top of your deck.
2 Recruit
Cost: 5

Common: Smash Everything
(Hulk)
Strength, Instinct
Dodge
Demolish each player. Each player may KO a card in his discard pile.
3 Attack
Cost: 4

Common: Contingency Plan
(Bruce Banner)
Tech, Instinct
The next time each other player would discard a card from his hand this turn, instead that player may choose and discard any other card from his hand.
2 Recruit
Cost: 3

Alternate Common: Know Thyself
(Bruce Banner)
Covert, Instinct
You may discard a card. If you do, whenever you discard a card from your hand this turn, draw a card.
2 Recruit
Cost: 4




THE INVINCIBLE IRON MAN
Avengers

Tony Stark is, at the stage represented by his deck, frequently self-destructive, having only recently transitioned from a layabout to a favorite hero and masked public figure. Given intense Focus by his considerable natural talents, he will occasionally escape from the obligations of heroism by invoking his deeply ingrained self-serving ways. If he can turn from himself and be branded a Savior, he may yet find some kind of healing.

Rare: I Am Iron Man
Tech
Each time you play a card with Focus this turn, you may play its Focus effect once without paying any cost. If you've rescued at least nine bystanders, you may do this twice.
4 Attack
Cost: 7

Uncommon: Billionaire Genius/Playboy Philanthropist
Billionaire Genius
Tech
Focus 2 Recruit -> You may KO a card from your hand or discard pile.
2 Recruit
Cost: 6
-----------
Playboy Philanthropist
Covert
Savior: Choose a player. That player may draw two cards.
4 Recruit
Cost: 6

Common: Selfless Streak/Selfish at Heart
Selfless Streak
Tech
The next time you would draw a card this turn, you may instead rescue a Bystander.
2 Attack
Cost: 3
-----------
Selfish at Heart
Covert
Focus 2 Recruit -> Draw a card. Gain a Wound.
2 Recruit
Cost: 3

Common: Defend the Defenseless/Call in a Favor
Defend the Defenseless
Tech, Ranged
Draw a card.
Savior: Each time you rescue a Bystander this turn, get +1 Attack.
1+ Attack
Cost: 4
-----------
Call in a Favor
Covert
Choose a Bystander in your Victory Pile. Rescue it again.
2 Recruit
Cost: 4

Alternate Common: Brainstorm
Covert
You may look at the top card of your deck. KO that card, a card from your hand, or a card from your discard pile.
Savior: Whenever you KO a card, draw a card.
Cost: 2
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You guys are getting after it EARLY! I like it! Remember, entries can be tweaked and modified all the way up until the deadline of 8:00 pm eastern time on November 23. This is meant to be a fun thing, so feel free to give the contestants feedback to help round out their entries.

RangerRob24 wrote:
Ideas about a Hulk v.s Hulkbuster set running though my head.

Dual cards except for the rare.

Rare is "Collateral Damage" which adds fight for each other Hulk and Iron man card played this turn...

hmmm...

I'm probably misinterpreting this, but it might be worth clarifying for the whole field. The Iron Man set will depict only Iron Man and the Hulk set will depict only Hulk. The text/effects of each set may mention the other, but that's where the overlap should end.

I'd also like to return to what I said earlier about "originality and theme," as I could have phrased it better. Rob looks like he has some interesting Hulkbuster stuff cooking, and I'm glad he does. I don't want to dissuade people from trying the more "expected" things, or else we won't have any of them! I guess what I should have said was, "If you're gonna do it, make sure you nail it and make it special." A Strength-triggered +1 Attack on a pretty Hulkbuster image probably won't compete with some of the more imaginative entries.
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HULK SMASH PUNY WORK WEEK

Anyone tinkering with some designs over the weekend?
 
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After an initial flurry of monstrous activity ... 3D Challenge #2 has calmed. Won't anyone else get angry???
 
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Why? Is there something you'd like to suggest about the existing designs?

 
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I'd like to suggest other people participate! The board is letting you run away with it! laugh
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Ryan
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Took me awhile, but I've got my entry!!

Let's start with everyone's favorite Billionaire, Bruce-er...I mean Tony Stark. whistle

I wanted to do this as soon as I saw having multiple divided cards was allowed. Tony has had many suits through history, and it's a shame they don't get as much attention. Especially as Tony keeps upgrading them.

So we start at the beginning,

We move to a newer suit: the Silver Centurion had a more upgraded Stealth capability as well as we see Tony go through his drinking problems.

This leads us to our first uncommon choice, as we see Tony begins to really get into building more suits for any occasion. This includes handing Wounds he gets as he fights his own friends.

His second uncommon moves him more into the future, including his journey with the Guardians of the Galaxy. As a futurist, he tends to work well convincing allies when he can as well as plan for the future. For him, that future can be now.

In the end, there is only one Tony Stark. But with all the suits, there can be multiple Iron Mans. And you better watch out when he calls them all out to play.


Now for Banner/Hulk. Or as he is known on Planet Hulk, The Green Scar.

It's starts with a tough decision. The Hulk has caused damage. Destroying cities. So the Illuminati send him away from Earth. Now you have to decide whether to "Dodge" that bullet with the first common. Use the Hulk and it hurts everyone. But send the Hulk away, and you save more people.

In "Hulks" second common, we see the Green Scar fight in open coliseums. His strength as he smashes gives the people hope to rise against their Red Emperor. The better he smashes, the more people rise up in arms.

Or perhaps you rather choose his third common, and join with other gladiators as you all try to survive. Creating a bond stronger than any Hulk had on earth. You were the Warbound.

The uncommon is also very thematic. Hulk is strongest there is and he can definitely take on the baddies all by himself. But as he learns to rely on his Warbound family and rises with the people on the planet, in time he might find a greater and more consistent strength.

And finally the rare, it's Planet Hulk.
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Only a month left in 3D Challenge #2! I am now prepared to announce that if we get at least one more entry, there WILL be a third and FINAL 3D Challenge to follow, one that's more open-ended.

So get your entries in, don't be afraid to post early, and go ahead and help each other out! I'm probably giving Geek Gold to everyone who participates, as if I were in a Board Game Brewster's Millions!
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Michael Green
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I only just spotted this thread after Dog referenced it in another thread. Thought it sounded like fun. I deliberately didn't look at anyone else's work first so I could come to it with a blank slate. Apologies if I've had similar ideas to others. I'll take a gander after I've posted to see whether there was over-lap, and what good ideas other people had. Here are my offerings:

Bruce Banner - Avengers affiliation

For Hulk I went with Size-Changing and a bit of Excessive Violence as they both seemed thematically appropriate and are quite new so probably haven't been done to death just yet. I also tried to capture a bit of Banner and his conflicted relationship with his alter-ego using the divided card and an alternate uncommon...

Common 1:
You wouldn't like me when I'm angry!
(Image of Banner mid-transformation)
0+ Attack; Strength; Cost 3*
Size-Changing: Strength
Draw a card.
Strength: you get +2 Attack

Common 2: Divided card

Search for a cure
2 recruit; tech; cost 4
You may put a Strength Hero from the HQ on the bottom of the Hero Deck. If you do, you get +1 recruit.
(Image of Banner doing research)

Search for friends
2 attack; strength; cost 4
Strength: gain a sidekick.
(Image of hulk protecting Rick or animals or something)

Uncommon:

Strongest there is
4 attack; Strength; cost 6*
Size-Changing: Strength
Excessive Violence: you may KO a card from your hand or discard pile.
(Image of hulk smashing stuff)

Alternate Uncommon:
Don't need the other guy
3 attack; tech; cost 6
Tech: you get +3 attack
(Image of Banner doing something cool with tech)

Rare:
Let Rage Take Over
5+ attack; strength; cost 8*
Size-Changing: Strength
Excessive Violence: you get +3 attack for each other Strength card you have played this turn.
(Image of Hulk going Beserk)

Tony Stark - Avengers Affiliation

For Iron Man I went with mainly Focus and a little Dodge. I was trying to represent how he thinks his way through problems, and is able to come up with inventive ways to work around things. I also wanted to represent his personal demons, and his alcoholism a bit, so did that with instinct cards and some focus based KOing.

Common 1: Divided card

Turn to my friends
2 recruit; Tech; cost 4
Tech: Draw a card.

Turn to the bottle
Instinct; cost 4
Focus 2R-> you may KO a card from your hand or discard pile

Common 2:
Find a work-around
2 Recruit; Tech; cost 3
Focus 1R-> a card in your hand may Dodge.

Uncommon:
Fighting with my Demons
3+ attack; Instinct; cost 5
Whenever you KO a card this turn you get +2 attack.

Alternate Uncommon:
Inventive Solution
3 Recruit; Tech; cost 5
Double-Tech: Focus 6R-> you get +6 attack

Rare
Uni-beam
4 attack; Ranged; cost 7
Focus 4R-> you get +2 attack for each tech card you have played this turn.

Play-tested once.

Feedback welcome.

Now I'll go see what other people have posted.

EDIT: tweaked Iron Man's second common to have less recruit and cost less.
EDIT: ran a play test with both characters +Captain America against Moleman, Portals to the Dark Dimension with Subterranea and Savage Land Mutates. Maybe I just got lucky or these three worked extra well, but felt a little over-powered when I defeated fourth tactic by turn 8 or 9 (though did take me til turn 15 for final blow). Made a couple of edits to cards that felt slightly too powerful.
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Michael Green
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I see other people also used excessive violence for Hulk and Focus for Tony.

Kind of thought there would be more entries actually...

I quite like the idea someone had of contrasting selfishness/selflessness on Iron Man being represented by rescuing bystanders vs KOing/gaining wounds.
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Thank you! It all started by thinking out what Divided was supposed to represent. Tony was harder to pin down than Bruce, though, in large part because the original version of all his divided cards had way too much text for those small little half-cards.
 
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Michael Green
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And here they are with fancy formatting thanks to Ubiquitous:

Bruce Banner
Avengers

For Hulk I went with Size-Changing and a bit of Excessive Violence as they both seemed thematically appropriate and are quite new so probably haven't been done to death just yet. I also tried to capture a bit of Banner and his conflicted relationship with his alter-ego using the divided card and an alternate uncommon ...

You Wouldn't Like Me When I'm Angry! (5 copies)
Strength
Image: http://img2.rnkr-static.com/user_node_img/60/1188861/870/hul...
Size-Changing: Strength
Draw a card.
Strength: Get +2 Attack.
0+ Attack
Cost: 3*

Search for a Cure/Search for Friends (5 copies)
Divided
Search for a Cure
Tech
You may put a Strength Hero from the HQ on the bottom of the Hero Deck. If you do, you get +1 Recruit.
2+ Recruit
Cost: 4
Image: https://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/incredible-hulk...
---------------
Search for Friends
Strength
Strength: Gain a Sidekick.
2 Attack
Cost: 4
Image: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/08/bd/a3/08bda381b...

Strongest There Is (3 copies)
Strength
Size-Changing: Strength
Excessive Violence: You may KO a card from your hand or discard pile.
4 Attack
Cost: 6*
Image:
http://www.nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Hulk-1-Bag...

Alternative Uncommon:
Don't Need the Other Guy (3 copies)
Tech
Tech: You get +3 Attack.
3+ Attack
Cost: 6
Image:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/62/8e/da/628edab84...


Let Rage Take Over (1 copy)
Strength
Size-Changing: Strength
Excessive Violence: Gain +3 attack for each other Strength card you have played this turn.
5+ Attack
Cost: 8*
Image: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111230...


Tony Stark
Avengers

For Iron Man I went with mainly Focus and a little Dodge. I was trying to represent how he thinks his way through problems, and is able to come up with inventive ways to work around things. I also wanted to represent his personal demons, and his alcoholism a bit, so did that with instinct cards and some focus based KOing.

Turn to my Friends/Turn to the Bottle (5 copies)
Divided
Turn to my Friends
Tech
Tech: Draw a card.
2 Recruit
Cost: 4
Image: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4wsxfrk991qeyvhgo3_500.jp...
---------------
Turn to the Bottle
Instinct
Focus 2 Recruit -> You may KO a card from your hand or discard pile.
Cost: 4
Image: http://img03.deviantart.net/6137/i/2014/033/0/6/tony_stark_a...

Find a Workaround (5 copies)
Tech
Focus 1 Recruit -> A card in your hand may Dodge.
2 Recruit
Cost: 3
Image: http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/7/79709/224...

Fighting with My Demons (3 copies)
Instinct
Whenever you KO a card this turn you get +2 attack.
3+ Attack
Cost: 5
Image: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/53/d0/ee/53d0ee798...

Alternate Uncommon:
Inventive Solution (3 copies)
Tech
Tech Tech: Focus 6 Recruit -> You get +6 attack.
3 Recruit
Cost: 5
Image: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/a0/35/e7/a035e7e96...

Uni-beam (1 copy)
Ranged
Focus 4 Recruit -> You get +2 Attack for each tech card you have played this turn.
4+ Attack
Cost: 7
Image: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-B4IewTlTtz8/UYQCj2qcszI/AAAAAAAAIc...
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Michael Green
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I have a whopping 6.7 in GeekGold that I will happily distribute in tips to anyone who can help me find images I like for my Bruce Banner / Tony Stark Cards above.

Here's a run down of what I'm looking for:

Bruce Banner:
You Wouldn't like Me When I'm Angry:
-Bruce mid-transformation, muscles bulging, maybe green eyes, hand raised as if to say get back, unfortunately most of what I could find had him in multiple states from Banner to Hulk in a single frame which is not what I want
Search for a Cure:
-Banner doing Science stuff in a lab
Search for Friends:
-Hulk befriending/protecting someone/cute animals
don't need the other guy
-Bruce seeming determined/defiant; maybe using a gun or triggering an explosive/doing something with tech stuff

-for the rest of Bruce's cards any image of angry hulk smashing stuff will do, I can find those

Tony Stark:
Turn to my friends
-Tony with Rhodey, Pepper etc or other Avengers, or on the phone
Turn to the bottle
-Tony drinking alone
Find a workaround
-Tony working/studying in one of his science labs
Fighting with my Demons
-hard to be sure what will work here, something representing Tony fighting his internal struggles/looking distressed/angry, but preferably in armor
inventive solution
-similar to find a workaround above, but more like the end result, where he's come up with something that works
uni-beam
-classic pose blasting the big energy beam out of his chest

Also, bonus points if you can find me an image of Skaar throwing someone/something (for my Skaar custom)

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Only a week remaining in 3D Challenge #2! Get your entries in, and for those who have already participated, feel free to tweak until the final deadline of 8:00 pm eastern time on November 23. Only final entries will be judged!

And then we reach the end -- the final 3D Challenge. What happens when a threat has grown too big for one team???
 
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Michael Green
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Switched the costs on my Tony Stark's commons, realised I wanted one more than the other, but the costs didn't match up with that.
 
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Thanks for the heads up!
 
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Today is the day, folks! 3D Challenge #2: SCIENCE BROS ends at 8:00 pm eastern time tonight, but you still have a chance to get your entry in! Remember, the winning submission in 3D Challenge #1 came at the 11th hour! It could happen to you!

Award announcement will come before midnight tonight. The third and FINAL 3D Challenge ... may not go up for a while. Probably not until mid-December, but don't hold me to that. There will likely be more time allotted because of the holidays, and I'd really like to see some big-time participation for that one, especially since I think it will be the most appealing challenge yet. So when it does drop, spread the word!
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I actually just finished a draft of the awards post, so if no one else enters, it should go up right around 8:00. Someone please make me do more work! The holiday isn't here yet!robot
 
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Well, I hope you guys had a tough time coming up with these, because I sure had a tough time judging them! Lots of moving parts, almost doubling the complexity of 3D Challenge #1. And I think the person who took the greatest advantage of those different options …


…………………… was the inspired interloper, dontfeedthegreen! I think his sets transcend for a couple different reasons, the most obvious one being class triggers, which aren’t as abundant in the other sets. This seems like the easiest way to provide a reason for choosing a particular side of a Divided card or which alternate common/uncommon to include in a game. Following that idea, it’s great that each Iron Man alternate uncommon plays off the other side of the Divided common, and does it well. Smart stuff.

Hulk’s cards are similar in that regard, but in addition I think this set is the most thematic of the competition’s entries. You really feel the split between Banner and Hulk. And size-changing! It just makes sense, although I don’t know if I ever would have thought of it.

The last champ, redlion64, came through with another solid entry. Of course the Worldbreaker would have Excessive Violence! Interesting take on his role on Planet Hulk, though. It’s nice how the Divided uncommon can be keyed off of two of the three possible common cards. Take your pick! Could this set have used a Savior effect, or would that have been too much?

Iron Man’s rare is pretty perfect for a man of many armors with nothing but Divided cards. However, I feel like the Instinct sides of both uncommons accomplish similar purposes, and while I love to see the Guardians armor make an appearance, it almost seems a little out of place. Not much synergy, apart from the always useful bankable Attack points.

TheUbiquitous has a great idea in combining Dodge and Demolish, and now I’m a little sad we never saw that happen in a Villains set (unless I’m forgetting something). I don’t know if the tech cards really have a home here. I think this is where some triggers would have made this a whole lot better and made the set really hum. I like the idea behind “Know Thyself,” but I think it could use some playtesting and a change in language. On the other hand, “Brutish/Brilliant” is maybe the most elegant card, in both function and name, in the competition.

I like how the sides of Iron Man’s Divided common can actually work off each other. That’s pretty neat. But then I think some other opportunities aren’t taken advantage of, as I’m not sure what all that Covert is for.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to everyone who made 3D Challenge #2 a huge, size-changing success! I really put the screws to the contestants this time, and they all came through with great efforts and some cool interactions! Give them all a hand, tell 'em what you liked, and I’ll continue with some more thoughts in the next post!
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General thoughts:

It’s so hard to figure out the costs on Divided cards when you start plugging in effects. Sometimes I wanted to comment that a card might be costed too high or low, but honestly, none of them seemed to be grossly off, so I just kind of accepted the ambiguity – didn’t consider it as much as I did in Challenge #1.

Interesting convergence on Focus, Dodge and Excessive Violence. Great minds, and all that.

I’m sad that no one went the Big Trouble in Little China route and had the two sets refer to each other! Maybe a Hulkbuster Artifact that gives other players wounds each time they use a Hulk card? Could have been a whole bunch of things to explore there!

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So yes, finally, here we are – THE END of the 3D Challenge. The final contest, announced next month, will be more open-ended with fewer restrictions so I hope it won’t seem quite as daunting. Until then, I’ll leave you with two pieces of information to get some gears turning. First, the title: MARVEL LEGENDARY TEAM-UP.

And this time? You’ll be bringing a Mastermind.
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