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Star Wars: Rebellion» Forums » Variants

Subject: Super Easy Combat Variant rss

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Ian Johnstone
Canada
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No dice, no cards.

Each ship hits for one of its attack types and damage is assigned.

Leaders can add hits/blocks to units based on their skill number.

Survivors may retreat or battle continues.

 
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
Germany
München
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This will not work, since the Empire will then always sweep away the Rebels, using more ships (they simply have more ships) and a Leader who blocks all incoming damage.

Also, in the original rules, 4 X-Wing fighters could roll critical hits, thus destroying a Star Destroyer with for hits - even if they have only black dice.

In your variant, this would not be possible.

Last, but not least, there are action cards that influence combat cards and/or dice rolls. Those would be meaningless now.

So - I don't think this "super easy variant" is so super at all... shake
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Ian Johnstone
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I see your point.

thanks for the feedback.

How do you like the combat as written?

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Joe Scharr
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Balancing idea:

Each ship hits for one of its attack types and damage is assigned.
- but, limited to 5 red and 5 black, same as regular rules
- Tactics value lets you roll that amount of dice instead of drawing tactics cards. Certain die results will give you extra hits, certain die results will give you extra blocks (I forgot the symbology of the dice)

However, I'd still like to include Tactics cards somehow.

Fiddliness aside, I still think the combat system as-is is just fine.
 
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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I also don't see a way that we can get cross damage this way, either. For example, even though a Mon Calamari cruiser is more likely to take down a Star Destroyer than an X-Wing is, it's still possible in the vanilla rules for an X-Wing to bring one down, given the ability to assign red damage on an explosion symbol (which is pretty thematic for Star Wars, as well as necessary in gameplay).
If units can only assign their damage type, X-Wings would never be able to assign black damage.

Considering how the Empire has more troops as well as typically bigger troops, this would be horribly in their favor.

Combat may not be fantastic in this game, and I appreciate the efforts of people to streamline it- but it's best to be careful, the game is pretty delicately balanced, and something this drastic would really upset things.
 
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David Umstattd
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Austin
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vorpal_Cortex wrote:
I see your point.

thanks for the feedback.

How do you like the combat as written?



As written the rules are wonderful and fine. Most people don't like them because they're different than most combat mechanics. And people don't like new things. See StarCraft The Board Game combat rules. Another original and wonderful system that people hate purely because it's different.
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Jon Harris
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I rather like new and innovative mechanics, personally. I just don't find this combat system innovative. It doesn't feel particularly interesting and it feels slower than I find worthwhile. I'd rather have either a much more granular and tactical system or a smoother, faster system. I can think of lots of game mechanics I found "different" that I really enjoyed; I neither especially enjoy this one nor find it all that remarkably different. I don't hate it, but this game has a lot of moving pieces and I find combat gums up the works a little bit.

I'm really getting tired of reading variants threads where people make comments like yours. We get it; you're all brilliant and cool enough that we don't understand the game the way you do. I wish your sort of poster would go do whatever a gamer and a board game who love each other very much do somewhere else.
 
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David Umstattd
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The things that make this different than most combat systems

1. the limit of 5 dice for each color. This is both thematic and makes it so fleet and army size disparity still results in interesting combat that you're invested in and don't know the outcome of

2. the whole colored dice mechanic. The idea that certain units tend to only be good at hitting their own type of unit is quite brilliant and reflects the lore quite effectively. Yet because all dice are valuable you are still encouraged to put together balanced fleet compositions without having absurdly complicated "These units work well together and get bonuses" rules.

3. The whole combat card mechanic. I really love this mechanic as you can't rely solely on dice or solely on cards given that a lot of cards require you to have certain dice results to play them. So cards aren't just a boring "well I didn't have a lot of cards but I have a lot of dice! or vice versa" they're something you always need to worry about and try to draw. Yet there are also cards that are highly situational (escape plan, bombard, No escape) so cards aren't just a boring "always good" there's some uncertainty in their usefulness.

4. The level of strategical parity between the theaters. Balancing multiple theaters of combat is hard. Even great games like Twilight Imperium have incredible disparity between the importance of space superiority and ground superiority. And other game just sort of cheat and have a "these units can go in these squares and these other units in these other squares" which, while thematic, isn't exactly fun or streamlined.
Rebellion does a great job making both halves of combat really important by requiring the empire to win both on the base to win the game, and by the prevalence of cards that instantly spawn ground units on spaces. Also I like that there are combat cards and units that can effect the other theater (brilliant strategy is a wonderfully designed card) so you get the feel that it's a cohesive battle and not separate. Which is another thing that is different, both combats take place at the same time (ish)


Sure long combats with multiple theaters can take a while to resolve sometimes. But combat is so rare in this game that it's fine I think. Were it something that happened almost every turn like some games then maybe it would be a problem.
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Matt Kruse
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Florida
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Just played this game for the first time with my father and I gotta say the combat system almost killed the game for us. Everything else was amazing... and then at the end of the game stuff started to go to hell. There was next to no combat for the first 5 rounds or so. My father as the empire focused on finding the rebel base and ignored my rebel held planets avoiding any fight with me, while I eat out valuable planets every turn to gain massive production as the rebels. By the 5-6th turn we both were running out of units to put on the build tracker. I had a massive fleet concentration on one planet that I could barely fit all my units in the system.

I then attacked with the Death Star plans...the battle was a confusing mess with all the units. I didn't want to turn my father off from the game with all the fiddlyness so I retreated after blowing up his Death Star on the first round even though I could have probably wiped his medium sized fleet there. The rest of the game I avoided combat like the plague even though I could have done some serious damage and I think he did as well because with the size of our armies it would have been extremely long.

Now, if my father had been a more experienced player he would have likely denied me more planets and the rebels would never have had such massive fleets to do battle... but the fact that it is possible in the game means that a combat system that complex and fiddly is extremely harmful to the game.

I will definitely be house ruling a new combat variant in my next game (if I can convince him to play again after the horrible combat aspect). I will be ditching the tactic cards and just use the dice. The leader skill will be the number of rerolls you get and the saber symbol will be damage blocks. Will this have some impact on overall game balance? Probably. But it will make the game infinitely more enjoyable and actually allow me to get it played more than once.
 
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