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K R
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Hello
I noticed in the Tuscany EE rule book, each player does their year-end upkeep IMMEDIATELY on passing from winter season thus recalling their workers and freeing up spaces for the other players who have yet to pass.

My questions being:
Q1) Is the above followed in Viticulture EE too? It seems the rule-book is implying that the year-end upkeep happens only after ALL players have passed the winter season.
Q2) I assume the answer to Q1 is the same in a 2p game too?

Thnx
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Jamey Stegmaier
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The rules for Viticulture EE and Tuscany EE are separate. The end-of-year rules for Tuscany EE only apply when you're playing with the extended board (with any player count).
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K R
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Thank you for the clarification, Jamey! Much appreciated.

p.s. great game
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Aernout Casier
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jameystegmaier wrote:
The rules for Viticulture EE and Tuscany EE are separate. The end-of-year rules for Tuscany EE only apply when you're playing with the extended board (with any player count).

I have to say, Jamey, I am very, VERY impressed with how quickly you and Morten manage to answer our questions. That devotion is truly remarkable. Thanks, on behalf of all of us.
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Thank you! Our job is made a lot easier by all of the amazing people who know our games as well as we do.
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Pauly Paul
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anim8r wrote:
I noticed in the Tuscany EE rule book, each player does their year-end upkeep IMMEDIATELY on passing from winter season thus recalling their workers and freeing up spaces for the other players who have yet to pass.


jameystegmaier wrote:
The rules for Viticulture EE and Tuscany EE are separate. The end-of-year rules for Tuscany EE only apply when you're playing with the extended board (with any player count).


Oh that's an interesting rule that changes the game quite a bit. I have no experience with any version of Tuscany but what was the thought behind that amendment Jamey?
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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It's mostly just a consistency thing, because on the extended board at the end of the year there are several things you have to do, including picking your wake-up order (if you're the first to pass out of winter, you're the first to pick wake-up order, and you do it right away). This really helps with the flow of the game. And we found in playtesting that it's both a nice balancing act (you can try to get the wake-up order you want, but if you do, you leave open action spaces in the winter) and a nice way to mitigate one of the frustrating things about winter (particularly at the end of the game): There are typically more opportunities to complete wine orders.
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Pauly Paul
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Thanks for the reply. I find learning about the thought process behind things to be interesting.

Looking forward to the EE of Tuscany to come out.
 
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Darin Bolyard
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Even though I've already pre-ordered Tuscany EE and will be playing by those new rules pretty soon anyway, do you think changing Viticulture EE sans Tuscany EE (with that particular rules addendum) would affect the game adversely?
 
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Darin Bolyard
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But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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... Aside from higher scores...
 
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Byron S
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dbolyard wrote:
Even though I've already pre-ordered Tuscany EE and will be playing by those new rules pretty soon anyway, do you think changing Viticulture EE sans Tuscany EE (with that particular rules addendum) would affect the game adversely?

It obviously changes some of the worker management strategies of the game, but it could probably work. The difficulty is in remembering to do it separately from the other end-of-year stuff. On the extended board, all of your end-of-year bookkeeping is done as soon as you pass from winter. If you also wanted to include the change to choosing your next year's wake-up order when you pass, that might help.
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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I actually don't think it would work for a specific reason: Tuscany EE's wake-up track prevents the same player from always waking up first (the top row of the wake-up track). The mechanism is that you can ONLY choose the top row (in fact, you MUST choose the top row) if you woke up dead last (the seventh row) the previous year. Otherwise you might just wake up first once and never relinquish that position because you'd always pass first at the end of the year.

I guess there might be two solutions for this if you wanted to try it with Viticulture:

1. Use the same mechanism as what I described above. Remember, there is no first-player token in Tuscany EE, because players choose their wake up position (among other end-of-year things like picking up workers) when they pass out of the winter.

2. Instead of doing ALL end-of-year steps (like in Tuscany EE) when you pass out of winter, only do the step where you retrieve workers, saving wake-up selection for the spring as normal (continue to pass the first-player token around counterclockwise). It would definitely change the decision space at the end of the year, but I don't think (initial reaction) that it would imbalance the game as long as all players are aware of it.
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