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StarCraft: The Board Game – Brood War Expansion» Forums » General

Subject: 1v1 matchups rss

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instinctive
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My friend loves Eclipse but I find it just too random for 1v1. So I'd like to introduce him to SC:BW in a 1v1 setting. I've only played 2v2 so far.

What are the most balanced 1v1 matchups? Which matchups should we avoid, if any? Any special advice for 1v1? Thanks!
 
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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The best matchups are mirror ones (Terran vs Terran, Zerg vs Zerg etc.). Than, I think, Terran vs Protos,and finally Zerg vs Protos. You should avoid Zerg vs Terran at all costs !!! :-)
 
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Scott M.
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I am going to agree with Floating.. Mirror match.

Starcraft has a very subtile Rock/Paper/Sissors game play for each race and when you play two different races you may hit it.

NOW dont get me wrong, that makes for really awsome and tense games knowing each side has a hammer for you.. but in a mirror match its down to skill and timing and a bit of luck on the cards.
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instinctive
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Thanks! Another question - for 1v1 do you recommend Standard, Galactic Conquest, Survival Mode, or Faster Survival Mode?
 
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Non mirror matches are more fun than mirror matches. Asymmetry is the heart and soul of Starcraft. Mirror matches are fine too but why on earth would you limit yourself to them?

 
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Dustin Crenshaw
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Yeah I disagree. Any matchups are great, I've played them all and enjoy them all. If he's a newb, particularly with starcraft's world, then have him play terran. It's much easier to understand their buildings, abilities if you don't know starcraft.
 
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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SirHandsome wrote:
Non mirror matches are more fun than mirror matches. Asymmetry is the heart and soul of Starcraft. Mirror matches are fine too but why on earth would you limit yourself to them?



He wanted the most ballanced matchup, and mirror matchips are the most ballanced. I agree it'smmore fun to go asymmetry, but Zerg vs. Terran is so lopsided that I personally advise against that. Maybe he should use it to handicap himsef by playing Zerg.
 
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Dustin Crenshaw
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Floating World wrote:
SirHandsome wrote:
Non mirror matches are more fun than mirror matches. Asymmetry is the heart and soul of Starcraft. Mirror matches are fine too but why on earth would you limit yourself to them?



He wanted the most ballanced matchup, and mirror matchips are the most ballanced. I agree it'smmore fun to go asymmetry, but Zerg vs. Terran is so lopsided that I personally advise against that. Maybe he should use it to handicap himsef by playing Zerg.


I do not have this issue, whatsoever. But I only play with expansion so I can't speak to the base.
 
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instinctive
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TBH it may be a stretch to get my buddy hooked. He loves Go, Agricola, Imperial, Eclipse, Dominion, LotR Confrontation, Arctic Scavengers. He loathes Race for the Galaxy. Why? Because, in his words, "you have to have grokked all 200 cards if you hope to do well, since you need to know what the other player is capable of."

So he likes games that are more analytical, where he can fully encompass the possibilities of the situation. I think SC:BW fits that description, but I admit it looks daunting on the surface.

The advice to play mirror is really good, I don't know why I didn't think of it. That means we're both on the same tech, so there's only one set of cards to learn. I'm hoping the Gameplay and Combat Card Cheat Sheet will make things easier, as it clearly shows that most of the tech cards are irrelevant unless you are aiming for a specific kind of unit.

I'm now thinking 1st outing Raynor v Mensk and legislating Special Victory Leadership Cards for Stage I, thus avoiding any start of game analysis paralysis and offering some concrete objectives for victory.
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Floating World wrote:
He wanted the most ballanced matchup, and mirror matchips are the most ballanced. I agree it'smmore fun to go asymmetry, but Zerg vs. Terran is so lopsided that I personally advise against that. Maybe he should use it to handicap himsef by playing Zerg.


OK. Well now that it seems that OP's got it figured out, I am curious to hear your thoughts about the balance thing you brought up about Zerg VS Terran. From your other post I think you are claiming Terran beats Zerg badly? Why?
 
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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SirHandsome wrote:
Floating World wrote:
He wanted the most ballanced matchup, and mirror matchips are the most ballanced. I agree it'smmore fun to go asymmetry, but Zerg vs. Terran is so lopsided that I personally advise against that. Maybe he should use it to handicap himsef by playing Zerg.


OK. Well now that it seems that OP's got it figured out, I am curious to hear your thoughts about the balance thing you brought up about Zerg VS Terran. From your other post I think you are claiming Terran beats Zerg badly? Why?


Because the Zerg cannot cope with the Terran flying units and Terran Marines are as cheap as Zerglings, but stronger. So the Zerg player cannot rush the Terran, and in the medium to late game he's trounced by Wraiths, Science Vessels and Battlecruisers.
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Floating World wrote:
Because the Zerg cannot cope with the Terran flying units and Terran Marines are as cheap as Zerglings, but stronger. So the Zerg player cannot rush the Terran, and in the medium to late game he's trounced by Wraiths, Science Vessels and Battlecruisers.


I see. Zerg really does have hard time dealing with Starport. I think Kerrigan at least can do a decent job at putting enough pressure on Terran to try and secure an advantage early game though.
 
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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SirHandsome wrote:
Floating World wrote:
Because the Zerg cannot cope with the Terran flying units and Terran Marines are as cheap as Zerglings, but stronger. So the Zerg player cannot rush the Terran, and in the medium to late game he's trounced by Wraiths, Science Vessels and Battlecruisers.


I see. Zerg really does have hard time dealing with Starport. I think Kerrigan at least can do a decent job at putting enough pressure on Terran to try and secure an advantage early game though.


The problem is that Kerrigan comes out Mid game, not early game.
 
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I mean Kerrigan the faction, not Kerrigan the hero. Her early game is pretty great.
 
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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SirHandsome wrote:
I mean Kerrigan the faction, not Kerrigan the hero. Her early game is pretty great.


Sorry, I misunderstood. Yeah, she is better than Overmind, but, slowly and surely, she will also be trounced in the mid to end game - because of the Flyers which she has nothing to counter them with.

Just curious: what's your play count for Starcraft and have you seen the Zerg do well against Terran?

PS and sort of off topic here: I saw you played Forbidden Stars, how would you compare it to Starcraft?
 
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Dustin Crenshaw
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In our games, zerg has a better win record over the terran...
 
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I don't have a super strong opinion on the matter of ZvT and was genuinely curious about your opinion. I haven't noticed the gross imbalance myself but am not necessarily saying you're wrong or right -- here are my thoughts:

Floating World wrote:
Sorry, I misunderstood. Yeah, she is better than Overmind, but, slowly and surely, she will also be trounced in the mid to end game - because of the Flyers which she has nothing to counter them with.


Zerg isn't COMPLETELY defenseless to the Terran fleet though. Not to the point that it's hopeless even with a lead -- Devourers are slow to get but powerful, and Mutalisk and Scourge are servicable. I agree with you that Terran air wins because the Zerg answers aren't terribly efficient, but really that just means that Zerg has to focus on the big picture rather than having a direct-counter to Terran air. Zerg is still the best at controlling a lot of territories with their ability to build lots of units quickly (and often rebuild more units after mutual destruction), and kinda depends on leveraging those advantages and being a bit "ahead" of both Protoss and Terran to compete with them (pretty much like the video game)

Plus, without the damn Science Vessels, I think it's actually Zerg that owns Terran due to their vulnerability to Zerg spells. So Terran will build Science Vessels, but Zerg casters still have a chance to do something on offense. The Terran can't have perfect unit composition everywhere.

Floating World wrote:
Just curious: what's your play count for Starcraft and have you seen the Zerg do well against Terran?


I've seen Zerg do well against Terran but I mostly play Zerg and am better at the game than most people I play with. So I've never personally felt helpless fighting Terran but that's why I don't have a strong opinion on the matter.

The best Terran player I know doesn't really like to play the game 2 player so haven't really got to try a good strictly ZvT match too often so that's why I was curious about your experience.

Floating World wrote:
PS and sort of off topic here: I saw you played Forbidden Stars, how would you compare it to Starcraft?


I think Forbidden Stars is a good game but the talk of it supposedly being a successor to Starcraft is often overstated, they share the order-stacking mechanic but end up being very different games. Pretty much noting else is the same except the core philosophy of "attackers advantage" (attackers advantage is not quite as extreme in Forbidden Stars as it is in Starcraft, though the penalties for losing a defensive battle are often much more severe)

Forbidden Stars has a really good combat system that has more depth to it than Starcraft's. But apart from the combat system my feeling overall is that I'd rather play Starcraft, though I have both games rated very highly. I possibly prefer Forbidden Stars for FFA, and Starcraft for 1v1 and 2v2.
 
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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SirHandsome wrote:
I don't have a super strong opinion on the matter of ZvT and was genuinely curious about your opinion. I haven't noticed the gross imbalance myself but am not necessarily saying you're wrong or right -- here are my thoughts:

Floating World wrote:
Sorry, I misunderstood. Yeah, she is better than Overmind, but, slowly and surely, she will also be trounced in the mid to end game - because of the Flyers which she has nothing to counter them with.


Zerg isn't COMPLETELY defenseless to the Terran fleet though. Not to the point that it's hopeless even with a lead -- Devourers are slow to get but powerful, and Mutalisk and Scourge are servicable. I agree with you that Terran air wins because the Zerg answers aren't terribly efficient, but really that just means that Zerg has to focus on the big picture rather than having a direct-counter to Terran air. Zerg is still the best at controlling a lot of territories with their ability to build lots of units quickly (and often rebuild more units after mutual destruction), and kinda depends on leveraging those advantages and being a bit "ahead" of both Protoss and Terran to compete with them (pretty much like the video game)

Plus, without the damn Science Vessels, I think it's actually Zerg that owns Terran due to their vulnerability to Zerg spells. So Terran will build Science Vessels, but Zerg casters still have a chance to do something on offense. The Terran can't have perfect unit composition everywhere.

Floating World wrote:
Just curious: what's your play count for Starcraft and have you seen the Zerg do well against Terran?


I've seen Zerg do well against Terran but I mostly play Zerg and am better at the game than most people I play with. So I've never personally felt helpless fighting Terran but that's why I don't have a strong opinion on the matter.

The best Terran player I know doesn't really like to play the game 2 player so haven't really got to try a good strictly ZvT match too often so that's why I was curious about your experience.

Floating World wrote:
PS and sort of off topic here: I saw you played Forbidden Stars, how would you compare it to Starcraft?


I think Forbidden Stars is a good game but the talk of it supposedly being a successor to Starcraft is often overstated, they share the order-stacking mechanic but end up being very different games. Pretty much noting else is the same except the core philosophy of "attackers advantage" (attackers advantage is not quite as extreme in Forbidden Stars as it is in Starcraft, though the penalties for losing a defensive battle are often much more severe)

Forbidden Stars has a really good combat system that has more depth to it than Starcraft's. But apart from the combat system my feeling overall is that I'd rather play Starcraft, though I have both games rated very highly. I possibly prefer Forbidden Stars for FFA, and Starcraft for 1v1 and 2v2.


I LOOOOVEEE 2v2 Starcraft, my best gaming experiences were 2v2 games of Starcraft. :-)

I only played 1v1, I think, 3 times, 2 of those times were in the beginning. The last game I played of Starcraft was 1v1 Zerg vs Terran and I, as the Zerg, lost easily. I did put some pressure on the Terran in the beginning, but in the end, when he got to the good flyers, I was tost. That happened in a multi-player game once, where me as the Zerg and an other player playing Terran were basically cut off and playing 1v1. I tried Devourers with Mutalisks and Scourges, but in the end, as always, I got trounced, this time mainly because of Valkyries.
 
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2v2 is fantastic, yes. Probably my favorite way to play!

Valkyries are really, really, good, yes. cry

Going off my gut, I actually wouldn't be surprised if Terran ends up being the best race in the entire game. If today I had to gamble on what race would emerge victorious if some absolute experts hammered away and figured out how to play the game perfectly my bet would be on Terran.

But I think a Starcraft matchup is pretty complicated and there are many more factors to consider other than who wins specific battles with ideal late game unit compositions. It would take me a lot of plays with a strong player to really make up my mind; though so far the matchups have seemed close enough to be playable
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I played STBG with Brood wars more than 100 times. Generally 2 vs 2 survival but al least 20 times 1 vs 1.

I do not see unbalanced Zerg vs Terran.
If Terran pushes on fleet well Zerg may still crash him with the air kamikaze unit: a battle cruiser costs 5 resources (3 blue and 2 green) on the contrary the zerg kamikaze only 2 resources (2 green if I remember well).

The only point that really matter is to be the attacker because Starcraft rewards the offensive players.

So in my experience in any combination 1 vs 1 the winner is merely the one who plays better.
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