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Subject: Necromancers and Six Spawns Ending Game rss

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Aaron K
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I am wondering if this rule seems to work well for others. Last night, I was literally one action away from winning and lost despite having the upper hand. There were less than five zombies on the whole board with three spawns when I opened a door that had six zones in it. The last objective we needed was just on the other side of the door.

Spawning the whole building brought with it three necromancers, ending the game, despite having the actions left to win (enter the building and take the objective).

This was my wife's first game and she was rather frustrated with the idea we would lose after doing so well the whole game.

Should I just chalk this up to bad luck? Does anyone else have an issue with this? If so, what is your workaround?
 
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Josh Rosenblum
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When we played it last, the rule we used was when there was a necromancer already on the board, the necromancer got an extra activation rather than another coming in with another spawn point. I don't own the game, so can't point out the exact rule for this.
 
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Jakob Lundgren
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TheWorstWizard wrote:
When we played it last, the rule we used was when there was a necromancer already on the board, the necromancer got an extra activation rather than another coming in with another spawn point. I don't own the game, so can't point out the exact rule for this.
I believe extra activations are the official rule as well.
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Flo Heisenbrain
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I personally wager what's the board state when a Necromancer leaves with 6 active Spawn zones.
If i think it's still possible (or in your case rather easy) to win the Quest, i often ignore the loss. If it's happening and you've got a lot stuff to do and it doeasn't look good we accept the loss.

We played it out a couple of times, ignoring to many zones, but it ended often in our defeat, because the spawns tend to get rather crazy with 7+ spawn zones.

Another way of fixing this particular problem is changing up the spawns while opening a building. For example there can only spawn one Necromancer in any one building spawn.

Or the Necromancers spawn as usual, but they can't perform a dark ritual with Necromancers from the same bulding and can't escape from other Necromancer Spawn zones in said building.

With the last house rule you would still have gotten a crowded house, like "the cards intended". So one last challenge to push through, but not an instant game loss.

@TheWorstWizard
If you play with multiple Necromancers (extra standard ones and special onces) it's supposed to have more than one on the board. And the others still get the extra activation.

But there are multiple issues regarding the Cabal rule, but no contact with Guillutine Games helped to clear these up. They were answered with "these special cases are really rare", with they sadly are not.

In the end it's a game (for you to enjoy) and if you feel a rule is unnecessarily causing a loss, you should house rule it into what makes more sense.

Cheers, Flo


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Conan Meriadoc
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The 'Six Spawn points lose you the game' rule only applies to permanent Spawn points, I think. In that case, you wouldn't lose unless those three Necromancers escape.

Technically, this will be fast enough (they can escape through each other's Spawn points), but not instant.

I don't think house ruling that they can only leave through a permanent spawn point would break the game, if you don't like that.
 
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Flo Heisenbrain
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jalkazar wrote:
TheWorstWizard wrote:
When we played it last, the rule we used was when there was a necromancer already on the board, the necromancer got an extra activation rather than another coming in with another spawn point. I don't own the game, so can't point out the exact rule for this.
I believe extra activations are the official rule as well.


When playing with more than one Necromancer miniature the rule is:
All Necromancers on the board get the extra activation
and place the indicated Necromancer with his Spawn zone on the board.
 
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Flo Heisenbrain
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Dystopian wrote:
The 'Six Spawn points lose you the game' rule only applies to permanent Spawn points, I think. In that case, you wouldn't lose unless those three Necromancers escape.

The Rulebook specificaly includes the Necromancer Spawn tokens, but your way is a good way to soften that up a bit.
Rulebook p. 29 wrote:

The game is immediately lost if a Necromancer manages to escape once there’s a total of 6 Zombie Spawn tokens on the board (including the Necromancer Zombie Spawn tokens).


Dystopian wrote:

Technically, this will be fast enough (they can escape through each other's Spawn points), but not instant.

With bad luck it can be instant. If you begin spawning in the room furthest away from you. Draw the first Necro, (in his zone something normal), next zone the second Necro (the first Necro activates and moves to you and therefore on the zone the second one is just laying down) [as long as the first Necromancer has to go through the second zone to reach the door]
As soon as you draw the third card, the first Necro escapes through the Zone of the second Necromancer.

This is only to show what could be happening if you follow the Rulebook strictly. As i said before i encourage houseruling those instant losses
 
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chang chang

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We think that when they wrote these rules they were thinking on only having 1 necro available. You could say that they though about this when they wrote the cabal rules, but considering how broken those are I`m inclined to believe that they didn't though about it much.

So when you play with only one necro, it takes 2 of them to escape for you to lose (quest start with an average of 4 spawn zone)

when you play with more than one necromancer things change a bit: with one necromancer, the one on the board would get the extra activation, but they would not be another mini spawning and hence no another spawn zone. If you have more than one necromancer to play (lets say, ostokar, menea and std) if std is 3 activation from escaping, on a quest that started with 4 spawn points. Then you drawn 1 std card, 1 menea and 1 ostokar; the std would escape and menea and ostokar would have bring 2 more spawn zone giving a total of 7. The more different necromancer you play with the worst this gets.

We were on a similar situation, quest 4 from wulfburg, one turn away from putting 2 heroes on the towers. Ostokar was on the other side of the board, 4 activation away from escaping with 4 spawning zone. Zombie phase came and brought std and to me pu ka... we lost standing 2 zone away from the towers and with no way to prevent it, and just because of luck factor.

Hence, after that, we house rule that we lose when 2 necromancer escape, independent of the zones on the board. (basing this on that most game start with 4 spawn zone and that it doesnt look like they though much about what happen when you play with more than 1 mini - or they didn't mind on how luck dependent it is)

This made the 5 spawn point quest a bit easier, and the 3 spawn harder, kept the 4 spawn the same. BUT it reduced the luck effect.

we still hunt those necro like no tomorrow (we don't just say oh is just the 1st one, because who knows what those damn cards are would bring LOL)

ALL this said (lol) no matter which rule you are using, if you have a necromancer x activation away from escaping, you should always think of the worth case scenario. how many zone do I have to spawn next/cards? do I have more necro that can come with more spawn points? ...

and tell your wife no to get discourage and remember houserule the game as you pleased, after all the only thing important is that is FUN

enjoy..

Heisenbrain wrote:
Dystopian wrote:
The 'Six Spawn points lose you the game' rule only applies to permanent Spawn points, I think. In that case, you wouldn't lose unless those three Necromancers escape.

The Rulebook specificaly includes the Necromancer Spawn tokens, but your way is a good way to soften that up a bit.
Rulebook p. 29 wrote:

The game is immediately lost if a Necromancer manages to escape once there’s a total of 6 Zombie Spawn tokens on the board (including the Necromancer Zombie Spawn tokens).


I do like this version quite a bit though.
might start trying that instead of "2 necromancer escape = lose"
 
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Angelus Seniores
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Talae wrote:
I am wondering if this rule seems to work well for others. Last night, I was literally one action away from winning and lost despite having the upper hand. There were less than five zombies on the whole board with three spawns when I opened a door that had six zones in it. The last objective we needed was just on the other side of the door.

Spawning the whole building brought with it three necromancers, ending the game, despite having the actions left to win (enter the building and take the objective).

This was my wife's first game and she was rather frustrated with the idea we would lose after doing so well the whole game.

Should I just chalk this up to bad luck? Does anyone else have an issue with this? If so, what is your workaround?


just to clarify, you dont lose when just having 6 spawn points on the board.
you lose when a necromancer leaves the board through a spawn point and at that time there are 6 spawn points on the board.

so, in your situation, as long as none of those necromancers left the board the game wasnt lost yet.

personally, i dont play with this loss condition if you play with several necromancers as the chance for necromancers to escape become so high exponentially that its impossible to prevent. the fact alone that they add spawn points increases the difficulty by enough just by the sheer danger of the added zombie spawns.
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Aaron K
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I misunderstood the rule for six spawns. The win condition including a necromancer escaping while having six spawns would have made a win possible in the last game.

I will play with that rule a couple of times before deciding on a house rule or not.

On a side note, is it seen as more easy or more difficult to pull from a large pool of minis instead of running out and the reactivation?
 
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Eric Harman
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If 3 necros teleport away at the same time, you do lose.

They create 3 spawn points, bringing you to either 6 or 7, and then vanish during the zombie spawn phase, making those points permanent. So you had the rest of your current round to kill 2 necromancers or lose.

I recommend just ignoring the dark ritual rule. Making it so necros have to get to a spawn point to escape.
IMO the dark ritual rule is a terrible one.
 
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chang chang

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Talae wrote:
On a side note, is it seen as more easy or more difficult to pull from a large pool of minis instead of running out and the reactivation?


I think running out of mini makes it more difficult. (though I don't think we have too many extra as to make a big different at this point, cant say that for sure because my extra went from KS box to storage box and out of play, except for the extra abomination. Because well you know, 2 wolfabomination NICE! lol)

Placing more mini that don't move (no extra activation) and then you have a chance to act on it tends to be safer, than placing some minis and then everything move in zombie phase. IMO
Extra activation is the thing to fear, almost same or even more than abominations

Now how to play is a preference. Some people love seeing the board full of zombies (this was specially significant in modern zombicide with the walking addon box); others, like myself, like having an eye on the population, and the increase risk of extra activations.
 
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Eric Harman
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Talae wrote:
On a side note, is it seen as more easy or more difficult to pull from a large pool of minis instead of running out and the reactivation?


Having more zombies definitely makes the game easier. Dealing with huge hordes of walkers etc is much easier than dealing with lots of extra activations.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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Talae wrote:
On a side note, is it seen as more easy or more difficult to pull from a large pool of minis instead of running out and the reactivation?

Definitely running out of minis is the tougher way to go. Nothing like having runners with multiple activations to screw up your best laid plans.
 
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Mark Livett
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We ignore that rule.

More spawn points mean more zombies mean more activations mean you are going to die pretty quickly anyway from natural causes.

We like watching the zombie population go exponential and over running us, makes for a more thematic way to lose the game.

Plus we have mixed in the zombies from two base pledges so we can get a lot of zombies on the table before the extra activations.
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Steven Gill
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We don't use the cabal rules . Also we only allow one Necromancer part activation (more spawn points on the board only one necro per turn from them). in theory more than one necromancer could appear in a turn if you also open up a building. But we say no more than 1 per building, no matter how many spaces (sorry late at night hopefully the above makes sense).
 
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glen bruton
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I ignore the 6 points rule completely. just adds complexity and if they can survive with 8 spawn points on the table then good on em!
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david bockstal
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I know this is an old topic. But maybe the following house rule could make up for the instant losses? When a necromancer is spawn on another necromancer's tile. The other necromancer gets 2 activations instead of 1. This way there would always be 2 tiles in between both. And you could explain it by having extra power being so close to eachother.

I just played the same quest 4 times and lost 2 times while I was running for a clear exit because of 2 necro's spawning next to eachother on the same point.
 
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Mr Suitcase
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boardflipperke wrote:
I know this is an old topic. But maybe the following house rule could make up for the instant losses? When a necromancer is spawn on another necromancer's tile. The other necromancer gets 2 activations instead of 1. This way there would always be 2 tiles in between both. And you could explain it by having extra power being so close to eachother.

I just played the same quest 4 times and lost 2 times while I was running for a clear exit because of 2 necro's spawning next to eachother on the same point.



Hmmm... Should you be permitted to necro a thread about necromancers?

In this case, I will permit it.


Seriously though: I usually play that it that if the necros started on the same tile, then they don't trigger cabal rules - they both instead go for the closest next spawn point. Easier this way.
 
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Jonathon Thompson
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mrsuitcase wrote:
Seriously though: I usually play that it that if the necros started on the same tile, then they don't trigger cabal rules - they both instead go for the closest next spawn point. Easier this way.


That is how my group plays.
 
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Mark Blasco

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We completely get rid of the cabal rules (which can really break the game quickly) and require that necromancers escape through a permanent spawn zone, so that spawning 2 in a room doesn't end up ruining the whole game. They both have to escape and run for the nearest permanent spawn zone, so you have at least a little bit of time to get them.
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