Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
30 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Neuroshima Hex!» Forums » General

Subject: Which armies do you think are the most powerful? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Gold Sirius
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Not the ones you like best, but the ones you think are most (too) powerful?
Now, I know some of you will come in to say "all teams are surprisingly well balanced!", but, really, I have serious doubts about that.

IMO
1. Steel Police
A lot has been said about Steel Police, and for good reason. They have pretty much everything. They rain from above to destroy you, reflect your shots, have an HQ that can net you from anywhere (and have regular net units), have lots of modules to boost their ranged units or attack twice... Definitely one of the best teams in the game.

2. Mississippi
Poisoning the HQ repeatedly makes the ability OP IMO. It's impossible to cure a HQ of Poison markers, so as soon as you get two or three in on the enemy's HQ, it's game over. By that point they would need to do at least 4 damage to you every battle to "catch up", but that's without counting the regular damage you're likely to do with other units, too.

3. Mephisto
There's something about Mephisto that makes it so incredibly potent. He's hard to neutralize and when you can put modules everywhere on the board that boost Mephisto itself from anywhere, it's very hard for the opponent to do more damage to Mephisto than it will do to you.

4. Smart
Another very powerful team, which with a little luck will let them play a forever regenerating ranged attack tile (the bio-droid), making it a very annoyng unit. And with many other ranged units, including 3 Gauss cannons and two Terror tiles, Smart is a fearsome team to fight against.

These are what I believe to be the strongest teams in the game so far. Played against each other, you'll have different results. But any of these 4s played against any other team, and you'll most probably be dominating the whole game.

Anyway, just my opinion. Thoughts?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Saya
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When I read your opening question my first thought was Steel Police. They seem ridiculously strong to me.

I really enjoy playing Smart--love the bio-droid and terror tiles--but I don't think they're too powerful.

I've had a lot of success with Borgo, but again don't think they're too strong.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yours Truly,
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I hate playing against Vegas, they seem very powerful to me.
I would much rather play against Steel Police or Smart than Vegas.

Doomsday Machine if set up JUST right is ridiculously powerful.

Neojungle, if allowed to grow beyond a critical mass, is a beast.

The above is all for 2-player.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T. A. G.
France
Itteville
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
- Borgo: capable to ruin the plans of many armies because of high init and hits in many direction. OP or not, they're just no fun.

- Mississippi: the army's concept is good, but the OP Mutation modules providing double toughness are just too much. I don't see any reason for that, the army doesn't need it.

- Mephisto: broken, just setup the Muzzle modules with Net incubator and it's a win everytime. One of the rare victory I managed against it was with Mississippi and cheesy poison tactic.

I didn't play enough Steel Police to be sure about it, but it seems to me that the army has too much modules.
However I like a lot Smart, very pleasant to play while still being balanced IMO.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michał Orzechowski
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
The truth is everything is balanced by being strong. There isn't any army that's objectively stroner than anything else. Some are just harder to play and more draft dependant.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr. Crocodilian
United States
Portland
Unspecified
flag msg tools
For a game with such different armies, the fact that Neuroshima is relatively well balanced is a bit of a miracle. With armies, its a bit "rock-paper-scissors", some are devastating against one, weak against another, but nothing seems ridiculously OP/UP

I'm a big fan of NeoJungle, but a lot depends on when their officers come out. If they can get a "jungle" with lots of buffs built, they're very hard to beat. They're bad in a multi-player game, because the board is too crowded to find safe places for those officers . . .

Like everyone else, I find Steel Police strong against most opponents. The ability of the HQ to net any piece on the board lets them foil a lot of plans.

Vegas can be terrific fun to play, but as the name suggests, its not exactly reliable, a lot depends on when your units come come out. In fighting Dancer -- which I hate playing-- Vegas will reliably dominate.

For sheer satisfaction, I love DDM. Its fairly easy to counter them, but the joy of watching your ranged fire multiply and strafe the board is hard to beat.

As Michael notes above, one distinction between armies is how "draft dependent" they are-- that is how varied are their pieces. Some armies have a few very strong pieces; with something like Borgo's Net Fighters-- if you can lock them into a secure position next to the enemy HQ, you'll do very well, but when they show up is random.

All in all a great game. Michal and colleagues deserve a lot of credit for having devised a game with such incredible replay value.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lien Rag
France
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As said before, all armies can be overpowered under the right conditions (luck during draft). Never felt Steel Police to be overpowered, as they have so few units.

Only one is really unbeatable from my experience:
Quote:
- Mephisto: broken, just setup the Muzzle modules with Net incubator and it's a win everytime. One of the rare victory I managed against it was with Mississippi and cheesy poison tactic.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Ulaidh
Australia
flag msg tools
All up ive got 11 armies at the moment, playing a lot. We cant seem to win any games with Vegas, they get smashed every time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Canada
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't have all the armies, but of the ones I do have, I'd say Steel Police and Smart are generally the easiest to do well with. Steel Police has a good variety of stuff to work with (a bunch of nets, those ranged guys that will either shoot twice or reflect an attack, that one guy that lets you push other guys...) and has both defensive and offensive capabilities.

Smart is very flexible. If you can get a nice HQ placement you can just have your guys swarming around it the entire game, defending you from any direction... and lots of offensive units. The Gauss cannons may be my favourite.

Neojungle is not as strong, it's very dependent on the luck of the draw, but I enjoy playing it anyway because it can be a neat challenge. Once it gets going it's really difficult to stop, and that's fun. devil Especially the poison counters. They're not overpowered, they're not even something that dramatically shifts the balance of power, they're just delightfully nasty.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron White
Australia
Bathurst
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Bennett from Brawl
badge
Slow and Thoughtful
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While all armies are powerful when allowed to set up their combinations, Steel Police is the most overpowered. Their abilities combine to disrupt any plan you make. Their only real weakness is a low number of fighting units, but some of their units have high survivability (those red guard multi shot moving monsters . . .).

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Brown
Australia
Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
mb
Against Steel Police:

you should focus on i) eliminating the moving shooters at all costs - this means holding a battle tile sometimes and other radical moves - without a shooter to move around, SP can have a lot of crap draws where they just get modules or weak guys.

ii) set up to eliminate their board presence - they have weak initiative without Modules - place units to secure lanes of fire for the future.

Overall, you should value Battle Tiles VERY highly and value scoring hits on the HQ very lowly. They will whittle themselves down through Netting - you WANT them to Net a lot - letting them NOT Net gives them so much flexibility.

SP has three amazing options - move-and-shooters, Executioner and the HQ - play against the worst case scenario that could occur next turn if they draw one or more of those.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr. Crocodilian
United States
Portland
Unspecified
flag msg tools
ugbash wrote:
All up ive got 11 armies at the moment, playing a lot. We cant seem to win any games with Vegas, they get smashed every time.


Vegas can be very strong. You have to think very carefully about the use of your Agitators -- the units that allow you to take over the enemy's units. Vegas is one of the few armies where I'll hold a tile in my hand, just because the moment to play an Agitator can be so decisive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron White
Australia
Bathurst
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Bennett from Brawl
badge
Slow and Thoughtful
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rook96 wrote:
While all armies are powerful when allowed to set up their combinations, Steel Police is the most overpowered. Their abilities combine to disrupt any plan you make. Their only real weakness is a low number of fighting units, but some of their units have high survivability (those red guard multi shot moving monsters . . .).


My opinion has changed a little on this. Yes Steel Police are good, but they are really vulnerable to bad draws and casualties. The one to watch is Sharrash. They are not overpowered in a "you cannot stop me" way (which Steel Police can create). They are strong with their superior board positioning. You can wriggle your base out of just about anything with heaps of options to nullify your opponent.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Am I the only one who thinks Doomsday Machine is grossly overpowered by far? This must be the reason it's banned in tournaments, right?

On the app, at least, I have rarely beaten it, but perhaps that's also a function of the AI knowing exactly how to optimize all the cannon redirections. Ironically I've had the best success with NeoJungle, because DDM's slow buildup spares me time to set up game-crushing modules. Against almost everyone else it really does feel like doomsday. So many medics and ranged units.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blown Cover
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Interesting - I'm writing up a collection of every possible match-up and, so far, Doomsday is undefeated except for a single win by Neojungle.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
FWIW we've had Doomsday Machine lose against a variety of other armies. Looking through some logged plays for DM non-wins (and ignoring various DM wins), I see that DM lost to Death Breath, tied with Uranopolis, lost to Sharrash, lost to Dancer, lost to Neojungle, lost to Outpost, lost to Smart, lost to New York, etc (I got tired of paging through logged plays at that point)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Brown
Australia
Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
mb
I played hundreds of games on iOS a few years ago and I would class N-Hex players as the follows

Beginner: tends to emphasise doing damage; rarely uses modules or actions well; thinks Borgo is unbeatable.

Intermediate: willing to tradeoff damage for board position more often; plays as if a battle is coming; thinks Steel Police and Doomsday are unbeatable.

Expert player:
understands the potential of key tiles at different stages of the game; sees opportunity in modules (even as simple blocking tiles); knows every matchup emphasises different strengths and weaknesses and adjusts probabilities based on what is drawn and what tiles are to come.

I've played games like Yomi that make a big deal about 'balance' and Neuroshima Hex has the best triangulation of balance, novelty and player control of assymetric game I've played.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
So why is Doomsday banned in tournaments?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
If I had to guess it's because of their infinite combo potential. If they get a lucky enough draw they can potentially set up an infinite combo to deal over 20 damage in a single attack. This would be rather unfair in a tournament setting.

Just imagine a game. Doomsday are down by 15 points but low and behold they set up an infinite combo. Everything up to that point in the game just became meaningless cause that one combo literally decided the whole game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gold Sirius
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Alex Brown wrote:
I played hundreds of games on iOS a few years ago and I would class N-Hex players as the follows

Beginner: tends to emphasise doing damage; rarely uses modules or actions well; thinks Borgo is unbeatable.

Intermediate: willing to tradeoff damage for board position more often; plays as if a battle is coming; thinks Steel Police and Doomsday are unbeatable.

Expert player:
understands the potential of key tiles at different stages of the game; sees opportunity in modules (even as simple blocking tiles); knows every matchup emphasises different strengths and weaknesses and adjusts probabilities based on what is drawn and what tiles are to come.

I've played games like Yomi that make a big deal about 'balance' and Neuroshima Hex has the best triangulation of balance, novelty and player control of assymetric game I've played.


*yawn*
Let's play. I play Steel Police. You play any team you want. Let's see who wins.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
GoldSirius wrote:
*yawn*
Let's play. I play Steel Police. You play any team you want. Let's see who wins.


The belief that Steel Police easily beats every other army makes me remember Ignacy's great story about Steel Police:
What Brad Pitt has to do with Neuroshima Hex...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gold Sirius
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
russ wrote:
GoldSirius wrote:
*yawn*
Let's play. I play Steel Police. You play any team you want. Let's see who wins.


The belief that Steel Police easily beats every other army makes me remember Ignacy's great story about Steel Police:
What Brad Pitt has to do with Neuroshima Hex...


Yeah, 5 months ago, if you read my original post again, I said they were one of the best teams in the game.
Not that they could "easily beat every other army in the game".

I still think they're one of the best teams in the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Brown
Australia
Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
mb
GoldSirius wrote:
russ wrote:
GoldSirius wrote:
*yawn*
Let's play. I play Steel Police. You play any team you want. Let's see who wins.


The belief that Steel Police easily beats every other army makes me remember Ignacy's great story about Steel Police:
What Brad Pitt has to do with Neuroshima Hex...


Yeah, 5 months ago, if you read my original post again, I said they were one of the best teams in the game.
Not that they could "easily beat every other army in the game".

I still think they're one of the best teams in the game.


The logic of your argument suggests you think they will win every game, a great deal better than 'not easily beating every other army in the game'. So which is it?

I suppose they're just your opinions - you just seem predisposed to thinking your opinions are right, despite asking for the thoughts of others .

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
GoldSirius wrote:
Yeah, 5 months ago, if you read my original post again, I said they were one of the best teams in the game.
Not that they could "easily beat every other army in the game".

I still think they're one of the best teams in the game.

OK, it's unclear what you are saying. More concretely, if 2 similarly strong experienced NH players play 100 games of Steel Police versus other randomly chosen armies (or better yet, two ideal perfect players), how many games do you think Steel Police would win? I really can't tell if you're saying something like 51 or 75 or 99 or what.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
russ wrote:
FWIW we've had Doomsday Machine lose against a variety of other armies. Looking through some logged plays for DM non-wins (and ignoring various DM wins), I see that DM lost to Death Breath, tied with Uranopolis, lost to Sharrash, lost to Dancer, lost to Neojungle, lost to Outpost, lost to Smart, lost to New York, etc (I got tired of paging through logged plays at that point)

This is comforting, but are these both human players? I think that would make a difference because it leaves room for both unconventional play and human error. In the app, a computer-controlled DDM is completely dominant, and not just with me. I understand the so-called Expert principles and have logged around 600 games on the hardest setting and grokked the AI well enough to usually beat it. But even when the AI plays against itself, DDM usually wins, and by a big margin. I'm not trying to make an objective claim, and it is true that the AI has a particular, not very sophisticated way of playing, but it must be an indication that the same system applied to DDM versus any army skews heavily one way. It would be interesting to understand why.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.