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Subject: Submarine stats rss

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Lone Warrior
I recently uploaded a new file containing stats for all of the submarines included in this game. You can find it here: Gato Leader Submarine Roster v1.1. Here is a scanned image:

Now on to the discussion I am hoping to generate. As I put this file together, it seemed that some of the values are odd. Not many, just a few. Perhaps these are mistakes that occurred during layout or printing? Or maybe the strange values are intentional and make sense? Perhaps I'm just not seeing the big picture for the few oddities I see?

SO Cost
On the surface the SO cost per skill level seems to follow the same pattern across the roster. Cheaper on Green and becoming more expensive as each submarine promotes up the ranks. No issue.

XP to Promote
A couple of oddities. The first is that the required XP value jumps around a bit. Sometimes the XP values required increase for each promotion. Other times they go down then up. A few have decreasing XP requirements as the submarine promotes up. The inconsistency is odd to my eyes when comparing the SO Cost of the submarine and its other stats to the promotion XP required. My initial reaction is that it would be easier to move up from Green and harder to achieve Ace status across the roster, but it certainly isn't.

The second oddity I see here is the large (and abnormal compared to the rest of the submarines) increase in XP required to promote from Veteran to Ace for the following submarines: Nautilus 6>15, Stingray 6>14, Bonefish 6>15, Harder (maybe) 6>11, Bowfin 4>11, Tang 5>11. These submarines don't show much of an increase in capability from Veteran to Ace which would justify the significant increase in required XP compared to other submarines.

Stress levels for Okay/Shaken/Unfit ratings
Some submarines have a lower threshold for stress at Ace than they do at Veteran. When I study those particular submarines that have a dip in capacity to handle stress at Ace there seems to be an increase somewhere else, or in more than one spot, that may balance the lost capacity. At first I thought there was something fishy here, but the numbers seem to show that this is only present among a few submarines and there appears to be an offsetting increase in capability elsewhere. So no issue that I can see.

In general no oddities observed across the roster. The addition of traits as submarines progress seem to make sense. The Gato submarines that started earlier (mid-1943 or earlier) don't come with radar, which seems to be a tip of the hat to history. The one oddity I do see is the Gato class Cobia. At Green she has Radar and Cool. When promoted to Trained sh has Radar and Searcher. When further promoted to Veteran she has Radar and Infiltrator. Finally when she makes Ace she just has Radar. This seems like it has to be a mistake. Seems odd that the traits would change at each level and you'd lose one at Ace.

So overall the stats seem to make sense to me, with the exception of the XP promotion cost and the traits for Cobia. Any thoughts?
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Paul Dodds
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"If you only read the books that everyone else is reading, you can only think what everyone else is thinking."
Big thanks for putting this together, Ryan. It's an extremely interesting read.

Like you, I've been slightly surprised by the XP requirements for some sub's advancement. I feel that the larger XP cost for subs like the Stingray and Bonefish should be the norm. One of the niggles I have is how easy it is for some subs to reach quickly Ace. I've frequently had situations where sub would advance multiple levels after one contact if they were able to sink a goodly few ships, which felt too quick.

I haven't actually checked the numbers but I don't recollect having experienced such rapid advancement in other Leader games. I'm far too lazy and mathematically challenged to work out an elegant solution so I've just been adding 10 to a subs' XP requirement for Ace if it only has a single digit requirement. That pace has been more to my pleasing.

I haven't used the Cobia so hadn't noticed the traits. I agree that it must be a mistake on the card. I'd be inclined to keep the Radar and Infiltrator from Veteran when advancing to Ace.
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