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Subject: Just played Human vs Pilgrims, score 114 - 35. Is this possible. rss

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Erik Andersson
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This was our second game ever and I am not sure we played correctly since the humans (I) scored 114 points. I used their scouting skill and airfield to gain control and then the occupation skill to score. Also played the Enable scoring skill two times.

So is this score possible or did I do some major error?

You get crystal-points for regions under control even if there is a trog token in it, right?

 
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Paul Ferguson
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I would say, read the rule book, follow what is says, problem solved.
 
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James Mathias
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eatem wrote:
This was our second game ever and I am not sure we played correctly since the humans (I) scored 114 points. I used their scouting skill and airfield to gain control and then the occupation skill to score. Also played the Enable scoring skill two times.

So is this score possible or did I do some major error?

You get crystal-points for regions under control even if there is a trog token in it, right?



You probably played correctly, can't know 100% without knowing every play.

But, the humans have a very heavy scoring advantage over every other faction, and in a 2 or 3 player game unless the other factions actively interfere with the human strategy, then the humans will win and by a lot.
 
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Justin Jacobson
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There's another thread discussing issues with the human faction. As a result they recently uploaded a FAQ that tweaks some of the rules/cards. You should take a look: https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/136001/official-cry-havoc...
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SC
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I found the Pilgrims to be very underpowered compared to the other factions when I played earlier in the week so anyone vs the Pilgrims I think could get a huge lead like that.

However, we played with only the default skill card so maybe the Pilgrim skill cards would balance things out, but as it stood playing the Pilgrims was no fun at all.
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Erik Andersson
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Yeah thought we did it right, just wanted to check since there have been a lot of questions around the rules.

Thanks!
 
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Erik Andersson
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itmo wrote:
I would say, read the rule book, follow what is says, problem solved.


Ah, thanks. Will try this for my next game.
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Grant Rodiek
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I will just succinctly repeat two things:
1. Check the official FAQ as one tweak was made to a human skill in 2-3 player games.

2. All the factions are different and require you play very differently to win. Some are tougher to learn, based on intricacy of execution, or different personality types. Ignacy responded in the other linked thread more thoroughly.
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Joe Martineau
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As others have said, that score seems about right.

Try a four player game. The current rules don't really seem to support 2 or 3 player ones.

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Erik Andersson
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I have no problem with the humans being able to score big if you don´t stop them. It is the same in Merchants & Maraucers where the merchant will score big if the other players leave him alone.

Also the human faction would be good to give to a new player. I have no problem with an asymetrical game not being 100% balanced. You can always play two games and add the total score or something.

Really like the game so far. Can´t wait to play again (Pilgrims).

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Erik Andersson
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RageGoblin wrote:
As others have said, that score seems about right.

Try a four player game. The current rules don't really seem to support 2 or 3 player ones.



Would love to but we mostly play two players, sometimes three. Almost never four.

How do you mean that the rules don´t fully support 2-3 players?
 
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James Mathias
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If you play 2 or 3 player with only the default skills, and no other skills the game is much more balanced.

The human's combo of Scouting (even nerfed) and Occupation is what makes them so strong, drop Scouting from the mix and they have to move to claim territories like anyone else, and the game then becomes a game of who plays better. Instead of a scripted play of Human running the clock and everyone else trying to stop them.

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Chris McLeod
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Grant, what rule was tweaked exactly? From what to what? Is this something I'd need to correct on a card or something?
 
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Erik Andersson
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jmathias wrote:
If you play 2 or 3 player with only the default skills, and no other skills the game is much more balanced.

The human's combo of Scouting (even nerfed) and Occupation is what makes them so strong, drop Scouting from the mix and they have to move to claim territories like anyone else, and the game then becomes a game of who plays better. Instead of a scripted play of Human running the clock and everyone else trying to stop them.



Thanks, will try this. Yeah it was when we added more skills the humans started to score really big. The Machines acually won the first game (by 3 points).
 
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James Mathias
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seejay wrote:
Grant, what rule was tweaked exactly? From what to what? Is this something I'd need to correct on a card or something?


Scouting was changed from placing a control token anywhere, to being adjacent to a Human controlled region. This slows their roll slightly, but I've found not enough to stop them from shortening the game by 1 round in the first round, and leaving the other faction(s) behind 15 to 20 points.

The change is noted in the Official F.A.Q. in the files section.
 
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Joe Martineau
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eatem wrote:
RageGoblin wrote:
As others have said, that score seems about right.

Try a four player game. The current rules don't really seem to support 2 or 3 player ones.



Would love to but we mostly play two players, sometimes three. Almost never four.

How do you mean that the rules don´t fully support 2-3 players?


James explains it well. I'm being a little hyperbolic, yes, but I won't play it with less than 4 at this point. The advantage the humans have is just ridiculous (at least at my group's current understanding of the game).
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Chris Beasley
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Got this game ordered from Coolstuffinc, can't wait, but looks like I'd prefer 4 anyway. A human player behind the trogs seems far more interesting to me than the AI. Also, don't really play anything 2 player unless it is specifically made only for that.... (Rebellion) But for me, that's FINE. I have enough games I can play well at 3, and if it does turn out to be great at 3 then that is just an added bonus. Super excited to try out the different factions and skill combinations!
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Dustin Crenshaw
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jmathias wrote:
seejay wrote:
Grant, what rule was tweaked exactly? From what to what? Is this something I'd need to correct on a card or something?


Scouting was changed from placing a control token anywhere, to being adjacent to a Human controlled region. This slows their roll slightly, but I've found not enough to stop them from shortening the game by 1 round in the first round, and leaving the other faction(s) behind 15 to 20 points.

The change is noted in the Official F.A.Q. in the files section.


Do you think always playing 5 rounds would help non human players?
 
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Grant Rodiek
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jmathias wrote:
seejay wrote:
Grant, what rule was tweaked exactly? From what to what? Is this something I'd need to correct on a card or something?


Scouting was changed from placing a control token anywhere, to being adjacent to a Human controlled region. This slows their roll slightly, but I've found not enough to stop them from shortening the game by 1 round in the first round, and leaving the other faction(s) behind 15 to 20 points.

The change is noted in the Official F.A.Q. in the files section.


James is correct in noting the change in the rule and its location.
 
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Grant Rodiek
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RageGoblin wrote:
eatem wrote:
RageGoblin wrote:
As others have said, that score seems about right.

Try a four player game. The current rules don't really seem to support 2 or 3 player ones.



Would love to but we mostly play two players, sometimes three. Almost never four.

How do you mean that the rules don´t fully support 2-3 players?


James explains it well. I'm being a little hyperbolic, yes, but I won't play it with less than 4 at this point. The advantage the humans have is just ridiculous (at least at my group's current understanding of the game).


I watched a Pilgrim player demolish the other 2 in 3 player at Gen Con. It was a hilarious beating. Different skills, ways of playing, group dynamics, all factor into it.
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James Mathias
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SeerMagic wrote:
jmathias wrote:
seejay wrote:
Grant, what rule was tweaked exactly? From what to what? Is this something I'd need to correct on a card or something?


Scouting was changed from placing a control token anywhere, to being adjacent to a Human controlled region. This slows their roll slightly, but I've found not enough to stop them from shortening the game by 1 round in the first round, and leaving the other faction(s) behind 15 to 20 points.

The change is noted in the Official F.A.Q. in the files section.


Do you think always playing 5 rounds would help non human players?


But still playing with Scouting and Occupation? If yes, then no I don't think the extra round helps non-human factions. The Humans just have such a strong scoring combo with Scouting and Occupation, it's hard to catch them, an extra round gives the other factions more time to try and close the gap, but also gives the humans another round to widen the gap.

Removing Scouting from the equation, fixes the problem because now the Humans have to move to gain control, like everyone else. And like everyone else they get slowed down by Trog encounters.

With Scouting, even nerfed, they can sit back in HQ and gain 3 to 4 regions without starting battles or triggering Trog tokens. This is a huge boost to their Occupation scoring card.

Playing with only the default skills in 2 (that include the Human faction) and 3 player games fixes the issue with the human faction running away with it. In addition to my own games and testing, all the examples of a non-human faction winning recounted on these forums, have been in games where the Human player did not have Scouting, or was unaware of the combo.
 
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