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Subject: Undecided rss

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Saben Schmett
United States
Hyannis
Massachusetts
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Hello everyone,
My group tends to prefer mid-weight Euros, and I have been I have been on the fence about acquiring FCM for awhile now. After the research this game certainly seems right in my wheelhouse, but it's hard to justify the price point pending how often it might hit the table. Has anyone who has picked this up had any success with their group who may be used to slightly lighter games?

Some of the "heavier" games we already enjoy are Terra Mystica, Through the Ages, or even Trajan.

Any input is appreciated, thanks in advance.
 
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Per Fischer
Netherlands
Den Haag
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Well, if you enjoy TM and TtA (like me!), then I have no doubt you will love FCM.

Per
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Saben Schmett
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Hyannis
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That's great, thank you. Now the task is to convince my group.
 
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James
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I've been playing it with a group who have played a bit of Ticket To Ride and Pandemic and they all love it. Only problem is that it takes around 4 hours, so it's not really school night friendly.
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Saben Schmett
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Well that is good news. This decision is getting easier. Thanks
 
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Jeffrey Speer
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Fargo
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Also try the online implementation. It's pretty solid.
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Joshua Schutte
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Columbus
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Kaworu17 wrote:
Also try the online implementation. It's pretty solid.


This it also speeds up the boring parts of the physical game ala dinner time
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Saben Schmett
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Crikrunner wrote:
Kaworu17 wrote:
Also try the online implementation. It's pretty solid.


This it also speeds up the boring parts of the physical game ala dinner time


Cool. Thanks for the heads up, it's much appreciated
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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Zaandam
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Splotter games are of a different order than what you are used to, both in game time as in how to play to win. These aren't lather-rinse-repeat games where the winner is the one who got his engine up and running best. This is 3 to 4 hours' worth of decision making crammed into 3 to 4 hours' worth of gaming. Plus that FCM of course has the additional benefit of easily keeping people in a losing position for a long, long time. Great incentive to do better next time, of course... but if next time is, as you carefully hinted at, sometime away, then it will be a tough cookie to sell overall. Or, phrased more accurately, a tough cookie to do justice to the demands it places on the players, which should not be underestimated.

That's not to say the game is bad and should be avoided, far from it. I am saying that a more prudent course of action might be to try it out elsewhere first, despite the fact that you'll be able to sell a used copy easily enough without losing too much money on it. It's not like FCM will be hard to obtain anytime soon as would be the case for many other Splotter titles.
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Saben Schmett
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cymric wrote:
Splotter games are of a different order than what you are used to, both in game time as in how to play to win. These aren't lather-rinse-repeat games where the winner is the one who got his engine up and running best. This is 3 to 4 hours' worth of decision making crammed into 3 to 4 hours' worth of gaming. Plus that FCM of course has the additional benefit of easily keeping people in a losing position for a long, long time. Great incentive to do better next time, of course... but if next time is, as you carefully hinted at, sometime away, then it will be a tough cookie to sell overall. Or, phrased more accurately, a tough cookie to do justice to the demands it places on the players, which should not be underestimated.

That's not to say the game is bad and should be avoided, far from it. I am saying that a more prudent course of action might be to try it out elsewhere first, despite the fact that you'll be able to sell a used copy easily enough without losing too much money on it. It's not like FCM will be hard to obtain anytime soon as would be the case for many other Splotter titles.


I see. The gameplay you described is definitely different from where our usual comfort zone sits. I would love to try it out first, and it seems like there is a good online implementation as noted in the comments above. This will be a hard sell, not due to the mechanisms, but exactly how you so elegantly phrased the gameplay. The main problem I forecast is loss of interest from he extended game time as well "keeping people in losing positions". This was a very helpful submission and I thank you.
 
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Love the game but it is definitely hard to introduce to new players, especially if they are not heavy gamers. So you really have to evaluate whether or not the people you play with could handle a game like this. If you don't think they could, is looking for a second group of heavier gamers an option. A player can really mess up early and sometimes they are playing for two hours with no hope of a win. We recently introduced to a friend that realized they lost in the first 30 minutes but three hours later he was asking to run it back.

Board games are relatively cheap entertainment. If you were only able to get it to the table three times with three people that is roughly $4 per hour per person not including the fact that you could sell or trade away .
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Saben Schmett
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BROK3N Virtues wrote:
Love the game but it is definitely hard to introduce to new players, especially if they are not heavy gamers. So you really have to evaluate whether or not the people you play with could handle a game like this. If you don't think they could, is looking for a second group of heavier gamers an option. A player can really mess up early and sometimes they are playing for two hours with no hope of a win. We recently introduced to a friend that realized they lost in the first 30 minutes but three hours later he was asking to run it back.

Board games are relatively cheap entertainment. If you were only able to get it to the table three times with three people that is roughly $4 per hour per person not including the fact that you could sell or trade away .


Thanks, I think I'm about to place the order just because like you said, if it falls flat with my group I will just stick it in the bazaar.
 
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Chris
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Also regardless of how advanced of a gamer everyone thinks they are or how you may hear or feel that the official introductory rules are missing the whole meat and potatoes of the game I highly recommend playing at least one game that way. It is very overwhelming to new players in terms of coming from behind. I found that an experienced player will not only dominate all new players but beat them down so bad as to maybe even sour them from the game.

Play the intro rules until everyone has a grasp of the flow of the game and how dinnertime works and how advertising works. then add in the other parts. I introduced a few players to the full game (they felt they didn't need and intro rule set). Then when I said lets play a few turns then restart they said nah we got this, then when I saw there was no way for them to win I asked again if they wanted to restart and they were like nope. Then I went and won like $423 out of the $550 in the game of 3 players. They were a bit perturbed with the "Run away Leader" and the fact they had no chance to win. Afterwords I explained to them how the game is unbelievably dynamic and that you will lose if you play it like any other old euro where you look at what you are doing and don't care about the other players. Every turn should be spent not only planning your forward progress but also impeding your opponents progress as well. After a long discussion about the game afterwords they want to try it again.

Point is break everyone in easy. It is a bit more than a medium weight game.
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kalvin connor
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I generally play with people that don't always play the heavier style games and it has gone over great. Its very easy to teach as well if you ask me, but Ive also explained upwards of 5 times already and I got the hang of teaching this one.

I got the game almost 2 month ago and played about 6 times in that period + 1 time when I didnt own the game. If there is enough time at any night of a meet up, I can almost ALWAYS find victims to win. I recently even got one person dreaming about a new strategies (no joke).
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Ian Kissell
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To counteract the lovefest, here are some reasons why it might not go over well:

1. There is no catchup mechanism. Normally, at least one player is playing for an hour knowing that there is no way they are going to win. Many games try to mask if a player is not doing well, but FCM makes it painfully obvious.

2. There are a lot of little rules that have to be learned, so while the framework of the game is easy to teach, it is not an easy game to learn.

3. It is not often clear what the implications of your actions are, especially early in the game. You decide to advertise burgers, but you will have no clear idea what that will mean. The game can be wonky and opaque.

As someone mentioned above, Splotter games are their own animals. Every one I have played has elements that are incredible and ones that are wonky. I was in your shoes once, but have decided I don't really like FCM because of the weirdness of advertising and I don't like the milestones.

Let me put it another way. Splotter games are not Euros. They share some features with Euros, but they are logistics games that play in a distinct way from Euros. Just because you like Euros does not mean you will like Splotter games.
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Grant
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KissellMissile wrote:
To counteract the lovefest...

Way to counteract that lovefest... By listing almost exactly the same points that have already been made.

Quote:
Let me put it another way. Splotter games are not Euros. They share some features with Euros, but they are logistics games that play in a distinct way from Euros. Just because you like Euros does not mean you will like Splotter games.

Would you mind pointing all of us to this "One True Deffinition" of a euro that you seem to be aware of that somehow excludes logistics games?
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