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Subject: Rating an unowned game under the new format :( rss

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Judy Krauss
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If I rate a game I don't own and have not designated in any other way (like previously owned, wishlist, want to play, etc. -- like Diplomacy, for example), from the game entry page it is still listed as "In Collection". It also appears in the "All" list in my Collection area of my profile.

Before the recently updated site format changes, I don't believe that a game I hadn't designated as being part of my collection (whether current, previous, wishlist, or other) but still had rated, would show up on the game entry page as in my collection. I never noticed if it showed up in the "All" list on my profile collection area, so I don't know if that is new, too.

In any case, I find this to be irritating, since I have a large, constantly changing collection, and at first glance, it appears that I own the game (unlike other games which have been designated by me, there is no qualifier in parentheses after the "In Collection" text).

It would be very helpful (and less confusing) if games that have not been designated to one or more of the collection categories could either not be added to my collection, or have a note in parentheses stating (NOT in collection).
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Kathrin
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As far as I know, it's been like that since I registered my account several years ago. If I commented on it or rated it, it appeared as part of my "collection", even if I hadn't assigned a status like "owned" or "previously owned".

I also think it's confusing, and if I want my friends who don't often use BGG to see what games I have, I can't just give them the link to my profile, I have to give them one with a filter on "owned".
I've also seen a lot of confusion and complaints about it on the forum over the years.

Now that everything is being restructured anyway would be a good time to finally change something about what seems to be counter-intuitive and confusing for many users.

I would prefer to keep an easy way of accessing all the games that I have interacted with (via rating or commenting them), but in a way that makes it obvious that I don't own, or have owned, a physical copy of this. Make it a separate profile section or something.
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Judy Krauss
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It may have been like that in my games collection list (I didn't notice), but I don't believe that there used to be an "Add to Collection"/"In Collection" button on the game's main entry page.

What I really don't like is how using the "My Rating" line of stars on the game entry page automatically opens the add game to your collection window, and there seems to be no way to rate a game without "adding" it to your collection!

Having the game show on it's entry page that it is "in" my collection is confusing and irritating, especially for those games that are not in any particular collection (and are not even owned!) so that the qualifying note in parentheses isn't there, either.

I suggest either disconnecting the rating system from the "in collection" system (which is probably going to be a lot of work and may cause other problems) OR add a qualifier in parentheses after "In Collection" for these not owned and not wanted, but rated games, such as:
(Only Rated)
or
(Not in collection)

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Kathrin
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Yeah, it is confusing that on a game page, everything gets the same green checkmark for being in one's collection, even if it is just because of rating or play logging.

When I go to

I have to click on that "in collection" line to see that I don't own, have owned, preordered etc. the game. And if I want to find out why it is in my collection, I have to click again, on "View in my Collections". This is especially annoying when I'm at a store and using a mobile device with long loading times and difficulties hitting the right area to check if I already own a game.

A qualifier in parentheses would make things much easier.
Or maybe a different symbol, like a yellow line or wave instead of a green checkmark.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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Jude wrote:
If I rate a game I don't own (and have not designated in any other way (like previously owned, wishlist, want to play, etc. -- like Diplomacy, for example), from the game entry page it is still listed as "In Collection". It also appears in the "All" list in my Collection area of my profile.

This has always been the case: nothing has changed in this regard.

Quote:
It would be very helpful (and less confusing) if games that have not been designated to one or more of the collection categories could either not be added to my collection, or have a note in parentheses stating (NOT in collection).

That has been possible for a long time already. Bring up that dreaded Collection view; click on the 'Filters >>' button just above the horizontal blue bar; select however you want to filter your 'collection' (for example, switch 'Own' to 'Yes'); click 'Apply Filters'; and finally save the 'Permalink' on the right of the screen, also just above the horizontal blue bar. If you then paste that link in your QuickBar you can always bring up that particular view of your collection immediately, or pass it along to friends and relatives.

In addition, the 'Status' column of any Collection view (included filtered ones) will list whether or not you actually own a game, whether it is wishlisted, etcetera. You just cannot simply sort that column from the unfiltered view: that's what the above route is for.

Frankly the confusion is understandable: BGG needed to come up with a word for the whole of games you 'did something with' on this website. There isn't really a well-established word for it because a 'collection' signifies things which are actually in your posession. Computers use the word 'database' for this, but that's hardly more intuitive than 'collection'. The problem is simply that computers don't really care about this distinction: whether you own a game or not is just a tickmark in a spreadsheet-like column. LibraryThing, the BGG for books, does something similar: the ensemble of all books you've interacted with is called your 'Bookshelf'. Which is just as confusing as 'Collection'.
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Jude wrote:
It may have been like that in my games collection list (I didn't notice), but I don't believe that there used to be an "Add to Collection"/"In Collection" button on the game's main entry page.

What I really don't like is how using the "My Rating" line of stars on the game entry page automatically opens the add game to your collection window, and there seems to be no way to rate a game without "adding" it to your collection!

It used to be (as you can still see on videogamegeek) "(+) Add a copy to your collection / (+) Record information / (+) Record a play".

The first and second buttons did the exact same thing, with just the first button setting the "Owned" checkbox. Despite the old terminology equating "Add to your collection" with "owned", either would make it part of your 'collection'. The line of stars now is a swift way to get to effectively the same screen as "Record information" used to open, with rating already filled in.
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Judy Krauss
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cymric wrote:
Jude wrote:
If I rate a game I don't own (and have not designated in any other way (like previously owned, wishlist, want to play, etc. -- like Diplomacy, for example), from the game entry page it is still listed as "In Collection". It also appears in the "All" list in my Collection area of my profile.

This has always been the case: nothing has changed in this regard.

...


Before the format change, all the info you recorded about your "ownership" or other relationships to the game was available for easy scanning by scrolling down to the bottom of the game's entry main page. That was easy and not confusing at all since you could easily see all the categories, ratings, and comments you had recorded and "ticked", although you couldn't tell at a glance BEFORE scrolling down whether you owned the game. Now, with the format change, the label is at the top, but you need to click a few times to get all the info you put in about the game, and the "In collection" button, especially for games where you haven't "ticked" anything other than to rate it, is confusing.

As for the second part of your comment, thanks for the detailed feedback on how to customize viewing your collection from your profile page. Although, I did realize that already, and having it show up in "All" category doesn't bother me much, especially compared to the game entry page irritation. But your instructions on how to do it will likely be quite helpful to a lot of people.
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Jude wrote:
Before the format change, all the info you recorded about your "ownership" or other relationships to the game was available for easy scanning by scrolling down to the bottom of the game's entry main page. That was easy and not confusing at all since you could easily see all the categories, ratings, and comments you had recorded and "ticked", although you couldn't tell at a glance BEFORE scrolling down whether you owned the game. Now, with the format change, the label is at the top, but you need to click a few times to get all the info you put in about the game, and the "In collection" button, especially for games where you haven't "ticked" anything other than to rate it, is confusing.

This sound to me like extremely useful feedback about why the design choices behind the new design don't work for you, coming from a completely different direction than most feedback that's been given so far, but basically ending up at the same conclusion ("scrolling makes it much easier to find information than having to click multiple times"). Please, if you haven't already, also submit this using the blue feedback button on the game page.
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Wilbur Whateley
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Jude wrote:
What I really don't like is how using the "My Rating" line of stars on the game entry page automatically opens the add game to your collection window, and there seems to be no way to rate a game without "adding" it to your collection!


Not sure I understand this comment.

If I rate a game I don't own, it opens that window. Then I just hit Save. It closes the window, saves my rating, and I don't have to add it to my collection.
 
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Judy Krauss
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chuft wrote:
Jude wrote:
What I really don't like is how using the "My Rating" line of stars on the game entry page automatically opens the add game to your collection window, and there seems to be no way to rate a game without "adding" it to your collection!


Not sure I understand this comment.

If I rate a game I don't own, it opens that window. Then I just hit Save. It closes the window, saves my rating, and I don't have to add it to my collection.


On the game entry page, at the top, there is a button under the line of "stars" for rating the game, that will then state that the game is in your collection. That is what is irritating.

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Brad Miller
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Agree that marking a game as want in trade or want to buy shouldn't be adding it to your "collection" either.

The redesign powers that be, decided otherwise.
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Wilbur Whateley
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Interesting. It even keeps it in your "All" list if you clear the rating. You have to manually delete it to get rid of it. Yeah that is annoying.
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marble911 wrote:
I have to click on that "in collection" line to see that I don't own, have owned, preordered etc. the game.

You must not be seeing what I'm seeing then, because I see "In collection (Own)", "In collection (Wishlist)" and "In collection (Prerdered)" (as well as "In collection (Prev. Owned)").

I do see nothing but a simple "In collection" when all I've done is rate the game, and acknowledge that it's a subtle distinction, but it's obvious once you've noticed. Somebody will ask why not "In collection (Rated)", and my guess would be that anything other than the primary listings would be lumped together without a specifier in parentheses.

In defense of the software design, there isn't a lot of screen space available in the header to work with; we want a great deal of information in a very concentrated area and compromises are inevitable.
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Ray R.
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I'd be happiest if they put the contents on the My Games tab directly in the Overview page and let me edit the contents on that page without the modal edit windows.

Putting that data back on the main page clarifies the relationship of the game to your collection and makes collection management easier. It seems a shame for your most personal contributions to a game entry not to show up on your overview page.
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Carol Carpenter
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How do I indicate that I own 2 copies of the same game, same edition? There used to be a way to do this, but I don't see it with the new format.
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starspangledgirl wrote:
How do I indicate that I own 2 copies of the same game, same edition? There used to be a way to do this, but I don't see it with the new format.


+ button on My Games tab (which you can also reach from 'View in My Collection' link in the 'In Collection' pulldown on the Overview page).

This part of the new UI needs some more work.

EDIT: if you just want the Quantity field, that's in Advanced -> Private Info on the Edit page
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Maarten D. de Jong
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chuft wrote:
Interesting. It even keeps it in your "All" list if you clear the rating. You have to manually delete it to get rid of it. Yeah that is annoying.

That has also been so for an eternity. Games can be owned yet unrated: I have a few of those. I also have about two dozen games which are unowned and unrated. All of those games remain in the 'collection'. Truly, the problem is that the word does not map to what people usually consider it to mean; but that there is no alternative for the whole of games you've interacted with.
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As Maarten says, this has been the same forever, and it comes up every few months. "Collection" just means "virtual collection of recorded data", including toggles such as "owned", and only "owned" means actually physically "owned" (if you want it to - some have their own definitions of what it means to own a game and use the toggle accordingly).

I'm always a little puzzled by the suggestion that people who reject unowned games in their BGG collection don't want a comprehensive overview of their data - like they want information about rated but unowned games to just sort of float around out there. I think it all works quite logically. It's a problem on some level that the word "collection" itself implies ownership for so many, but I don't think anyone ever came up with a simple and clear alternative for people to get behind.
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Well it's a bit odd to have games which are neither owned, nor rated, nor commented on, nor previously owned, etc in my data. Basically if I ever "touched" a game it is remembered even if it was a mistake and I delete my rating or whatever caused it to get added to my list.
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A little manual upkeep is required for maximal neatness. Personally I use the "in collection, but no actual data" state as a reminder and placeholder. For instance, after I play a game (or have played it in the past), but I haven't yet got around to putting a rating and comment on it (or can't remember it well enough to do so). A permalink in my quickbar takes me to a view of all games that are in my collection but are not a) rated or b) marked as "want to play". This gets populated by games I played a long time ago, games I played but couldn't rate properly, games I acquired but didn't play yet, and the odd game I only have some comment on. If I ever mistakenly added a game to my collection, it would appear there and I could delete it with a click or two.
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chuft wrote:
Well it's a bit odd to have games which are neither owned, nor rated, nor commented on, nor previously owned, etc in my data. Basically if I ever "touched" a game it is remembered even if it was a mistake and I delete my rating or whatever caused it to get added to my list.
I just rated a game not in my collection. It added it to my collection, as BGG uses the term. I then immediately cleared the rating, but the game remained in my collection. I agree, I think this is a problem. However, you can actually fix it on the game page. Click on the "In collection" button, then click on "Edit" to pull up the side page thingy. At the top right corner of this side page, there are three dots. Click on those three dots, and you'll be able to click "Delete from Collection", then a pop up window appears and you'll have to click again "Yes, Delete". Not obvious, but it's there.
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chuft wrote:
Well it's a bit odd to have games which are neither owned, nor rated, nor commented on, nor previously owned, etc in my data. Basically if I ever "touched" a game it is remembered even if it was a mistake and I delete my rating or whatever caused it to get added to my list.

I agree that leaving an empty entry seems like a mistake more often than not, and manual inspection is required to identify these records, because there's no filter for private comments, wishlist comments, etc. I start with a filter like the one below. Readers should change the username to their own. (The private data block is visible only by the account owner):

possible empties

Out of curiosity, I tried this with the OP's username, and it included one bogus N/A entry. Perhaps a deleted game that didn't get merged?
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jdw734 wrote:
chuft wrote:
Well it's a bit odd to have games which are neither owned, nor rated, nor commented on, nor previously owned, etc in my data. Basically if I ever "touched" a game it is remembered even if it was a mistake and I delete my rating or whatever caused it to get added to my list.
I just rated a game not in my collection. It added it to my collection, as BGG uses the term. I then immediately cleared the rating, but the game remained in my collection. I agree, I think this is a problem. However, you can actually fix it on the game page. Click on the "In collection" button, then click on "Edit" to pull up the side page thingy. At the top right corner of this side page, there are three dots. Click on those three dots, and you'll be able to click "Delete from Collection", then a pop up window appears and you'll have to click again "Yes, Delete". Not obvious, but it's there.

That is the change that seems like a step backwards to me. It used to be dead easy to delete an entry from your collection; there was a clearly labeled 'delete' function right there on the game page and it only took one click. You could also add an additional entry for a second copy the same way.

Now the methods to accomplish either are more complicated and more difficult to find.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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Truth be told, the iconography and location under the old system were pretty braindead. A × in the upper right corner of anything window-like means, to 100% of the UI-using population on this planet, 'close the window'. If there wasn't a mouseover telling what it did I'm sure we'd have had many threads about it.
 
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marble911 wrote:
Yeah, it is confusing that on a game page, everything gets the same green checkmark for being in one's collection, even if it is just because of rating or play logging.


I don't think logging a play adds a game to your collection. I think anything else you do (rating, want to buy and so on...) does.
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