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Victory in Europe» Forums » Sessions

Subject: What can happen if you dont attack all out West. rss

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juerg haeberli
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So we started another campaign game yesterday with me as the allies.

I set up the Poles with 2 units in Warsaw and one unit in Cracow assuming my opponent would use the all out West attack opening.
The plan was to declare war on the Axis during 1-40 and ally with Poland in the same turn. I wanted to see if this was a viable strategy for the Russians.

The French used the usual defnse with with 4d2, 2d1 and 1d1 in Champagne and 2d1 and 2x1d1 in Picardie.

3-39

Opening cards : Blitzkrieg ( tank ) / Hunt for Graf Spee

Axis used 3c2. 2x3d2 and medium bomber to take Cracow and 2x4d2, Stucka and Guderian to take Holland.
A victorious Guderian blitzed into Belgium with 4d2 and Stucka generating 2 hits against 0.
Blitzing again he was a bit unlucky and generated only 1 hit against 0.
Result: Belgium held and a big sigh of relief in the allied HQ's.

Allies had SR'ed the BEF and a French colonial troop to Pic.

During diplo phase the Finns joined the Axis ( grrr not good for my early Soviet war declaration ) and Norway joined the Allies. ( hooray )

Side note: In our last 4 games Norway joined the Allies 4 times during 3-39.

During production the Allies spent a point in Poland because the sea route is not blocked by Axis ships and the French build a factory. ( A tad optimistic but ok )

4-39

Attack by U-47 / Winter war

Axis took Belgium, Den was rolled over by panzers and Allies SR the other colonial troop to Pic.
During diplo phase the Romanians decline to join the Axis ( needing a 4 they rolled a 3 ) and then decline to join the Soviets. ( needing a 9 the rolled an 8 )

1-40

The Bltz / Colonial troops

3 German sub steps sink the lonely Frech convoy step.
In Birmingham a factory is lost to strategic bombing.
Italians SR to Africa.

Soviets declare war on Axis and take Königsberg.
Canadians SR to Bergen. ( Trondheim would have been better )

During diplo phase Poland and Greece join the Allies and Hungary joins Axis.

2-40

Adlertag / Maginot line

Axis attacks Champagne with 4d3, 2x4d2, Paras, Guderian and Me109 agains 2x4d2, 3d1 and Spitfires.
Axis wins but remains with 1d3, 2x1d2, 1c1 and a zeroed Guderian. It lost the air war 3 to 1 !!!! even with Adlertag.
The French convoy is sunk again.

Soviets attack Cracov with 3c2, 3c1, 3d2 and 4d1 against 2x3d2
generating 5 hits and loosing 2d1 steps to combat and 2d1 steps to impossible retreat.

All in all the Axis lost 34 PP's during this turn.

Axis conceeded.

Although Paris would only be defended by 3d1, 2x2d2 and 3b2 AF during the next turn the now beginning two front war seems to be lost for the Axis.
 
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Marten Tjaart Raadsveld
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I think Poland can only ally with the Soviets during a Soviet diplomacy phase. This means a red card needs to be played for a Russian-Polish Alliance.
 
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juerg haeberli
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No,

This is a "free" alliance and does not count as the turns diplomacy action for the Allies.
 
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Marten Tjaart Raadsveld
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P 11 in the Gazetteer under Poland: "The Soviets .... may declare an alliance with an unconquered Poland any Diplomatic Phase starting 1940 - this is not the Allied Diplomatic Turn.

It seems there is a strict distinction between an Allied or Soviet Diplomatic Phase. It is easy to miss but quite important. You need to play a red card to form a Polish-Soviet Alliance
 
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juerg haeberli
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If it is not the allied diplomatic turn why would you need a card to declare the alliance ?

There is only one diplomatic phase for the Allies in which depending on the card you play you roll for the Soviets or the Western Allies.
 
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Willem Boersma
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haeberich wrote:
If it is not the allied diplomatic turn why would you need a card to declare the alliance ?

There is only one diplomatic phase for the Allies in which depending on the card you play you roll for the Soviets or the Western Allies.


It seems to me, it could be explained either way...Ron?
 
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Ron Draker
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There is no need for a red card because it is a free diplomatic gain if Poland remains unconquered. The rule states...

"The Soviets may occupy their half of Poland on turn 1 or later, and may declare an alliance with an unconquered Poland any Diplomatic Phase starting 1940 – this is not the Allied Diplomatic Turn."

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Marten Tjaart Raadsveld
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Mea Culpa, I misunderstood. The last phrase (after the -) got me on the wrong foot.
 
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Michael Bluth
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This part raises a question for me:

"Axis used 3c2. 2x2d2 and medium bomber to take Cracow and 2x4d2, Stucka and Guderian to take Holland.
A victorious Guderian blitzed into Belgium with 4d2 and Stucka generating 2 hits against 0.
Blitzing again he was a bit unlucky and generated only 1 hit against 0.
Result: Belgium held and a big sigh of relief in the allied HQ's."

So you are rolling 7 dice for 2s (3 for the Stuka and 4 for the infantry) - THREE times and only got 3 hits? Not to mention 1 die for a 1 for Guderian for the first and 2nd round.

That is VERY unlucky.
 
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N P
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Forget holland. You can get them later. Everything into Belgium with General. I blitz twice if unlucky.
 
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juerg haeberli
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Michael,

It is only 2 times 7 dice.
He is blitzing into Belgium = 1 combat round.
Blitzing again for another combat round.

Forget about Holland ?
The intention of this opening is to avoid an Allied intervention in Belgium.

With the same cards I would have gone all out West into Holland and Belgium but some might say I am biased towards this opening.
 
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Willem Boersma
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haeberich wrote:
Michael,

It is only 2 times 7 dice.
He is blitzing into Belgium = 1 combat round.
Blitzing again for another combat round.

Forget about Holland ?
The intention of this opening is to avoid an Allied intervention in Belgium.

With the same cards I would have gone all out West into Holland and Belgium but some might say I am biased towards this opening.:)


The Allies can't sea invade Holland. What do you mean by "the intention...intervention in BELGIUM" by attacking HOLLAND?
 
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juerg haeberli
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There seems to be a misunderstanding here.

He first attacked and took Holland and then he blitzed into Belgium where he was 1 hit below average in the 2 blitzing rounds so the Belgian army survived with one step.

Since you attack Holland during the regular movement phase and then blitz into Belgium the Allies cant intervene in Belgium.
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juerg haeberli
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Bravehart:
Everything into Belgium would be ?

Most I can see is 3c2 Panzer, 1c1 Para, 3c1 Graf Spee, 2d1 Guderian and 3b2 Stucka.
Against this attack with non Blitzkrieg or Graf Spee card an intervention of 4d2 and 2d1 inf and 3a2 spitfire seems to be at least very interesting for the Allies.
First round the Germans can expect 3 hits aginst probabely 0.
Second round the stucka takes hit the Germans generate another 3 hits if lucky and the panzer takes a hit.
There are now 4 allied inf steps left and even if you blitz for two rounds on average you will not take Belgium.
If the attack is made with one of the 3 cards named above the allies should probabely not intervene.
 
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Michael Bluth
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haeberich wrote:
Michael,

It is only 2 times 7 dice.
He is blitzing into Belgium = 1 combat round.
Blitzing again for another combat round.

Forget about Holland ?
The intention of this opening is to avoid an Allied intervention in Belgium.

With the same cards I would have gone all out West into Holland and Belgium but some might say I am biased towards this opening.


Ok this is my confusion - and would love a clarification by Ron because it makes a dramatic difference to the way the game is played (it is possible that the rules are poorly worded).

Rule 5.6

"Blitzing units can start 1 NEW BATTLE (emphasis mine) OR reinforce 1 contested area."

It doesn't mandate that the new battle is only one round, why does the German army blitzing into Belgium not get 2 rounds of combat and then Guderian reduces a 2nd time to get the 3rd round?
 
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juerg haeberli
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This has already been discussed in this forum and it is only one round.
I at first interpretated it the same way you did.
 
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Ron Draker
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Think of it as each step a leader burns buys one round of battle, whether to continue an ongoing battle or initiate a new battle. Hopefully this will be clearer in 1.2. I think the summary on the back page is clearer:

[3] COMBAT
Player 1 determines the order of battles
– Player 1 Raids first. Each battle has two
(sometimes more) rounds of combat.
Units of Player 2 that reinforce are not
available for combat until Round 2.
Units can retreat or fire on any battle
turn, but are subject to 1-Step loss if
they retreat on the first round. Retreats
are to adjacent, friendly areas, subject to
border limits.
Blitz: a leader in a battle may expend
one step to:
• Fight an extra combat round, or
• If a battle is won, Exploit into adjacent
areas. Subject to Border and Stacking
limits, Exploit units can start 1 new
battle (one round)
, or reinforce 1
contested area, resolved immediately in
either case.
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Michael Bluth
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Thank you Juerg and Ron - yes the back of the booklet is much clearer.

Something for you to add to the actual rules parts for 1.2

It makes a lot of what everyone has been saying about the Axis being at such a disadvantage. I only have one regular partner to play against, and we find that the Axis does very well - which of course it would with a whole other round of battle each time there is a Blitz Exploit.

Glad to now be playing the correct way
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