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Subject: Will this get a US release without the ceramic animals? rss

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michael c
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I've been considering backing this on Kickstarter, but the shipping cost to the US is rather high. Will this get a wide distribution release down the line without the limited edition ceramic figures, or is this really the only opportunity to pick up this game?
 
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Bruce Murphy
Australia
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Organize a group buy. The ceramic animals aren't going to be a big piece of the shipping and no other cwali game has gone that route.

B>
 
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michael c
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thepackrat wrote:
Organize a group buy. The ceramic animals aren't going to be a big piece of the shipping and no other cwali game has gone that route.

B>



A group buy isn't really an option. At any rate, I didn't think the ceramic animals were adding much to the weight. The KS page says that it's a limited print run because of the ceramic animals. Therefore, I was wondering if there would be a future print run without the ceramic animals that was widely available so that I could purchase the game from a US distributor or retailer rather than paying for shipping from Europe, which is 60% of the game's price.
 
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Bruce Murphy
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I just organised a city-wide group buy from Australia.

Print runs for games are themselves very expensive when small. I'd be startled if this went multi-run rather than the resources being used for the next game.

B>
 
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Nathan Morse
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The best answer I can think to give is that you should check boardgameprices.com for Factory Funner, Samara, Tweeeet, Meltdown 2020, Sun, Sea & Sand, BasketBoss, Powerboats, and Gipsy King, then make your assessment.

…or maybe you should only look at Tricky Trek, Tricky Safari, and Tricky Wildlife, which all use those Minimals; and Tweeeet and Leelawadee, which have handmade components, and were thus explicitly limited print runs.

If you want to be sure to get it, I'd go for it, and if you can follow Bruce's suggestion, it may not be so bad.

Also, off the top of my head, I can only think of two Cwali games that were co-published (albeit both by USA publishers): Factory Fun (but including Factory Fun Expansion 1) and Typo, so I wouldn't hold my breath for that option.
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Michael Frost

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Guess I just don't get it, but makes no sense to me why Cwali games tends to ignore the North American market. They make it difficult to get some great games. Love Sun, Sea & Sand but they didn't sell it directly in USA. Thank God for KS. Samara last year. Habitats this year. If you want the game, go KSer route. May never come to USA otherwise. (Though based on Samara, you could wait till next year. There will be some who KS it who end up selling it. But you'll take the gamble on price. And still pay some shipping.)
 
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Bruce Murphy
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MPMelanchthon wrote:
Guess I just don't get it, but makes no sense to me why Cwali games tends to ignore the North American market. They make it difficult to get some great games. Love Sun, Sea & Sand but they didn't sell it directly in USA. Thank God for KS. Samara last year. Habitats this year. If you want the game, go KSer route. May never come to USA otherwise. (Though based on Samara, you could wait till next year. There will be some who KS it who end up selling it. But you'll take the gamble on price. And still pay some shipping.)


I imagine he ignores the US market because
1) it's a pain to get to from Europe and
2) he is in Europe and
3) you could just go to Essen if you wanted to buy the games as has historically been the case.

oh, and 4. The US markets sets its price baseline by Walmart.

Really, the international kickstarter route has made it far easier to geth the games outside of Essen. I'm quite surprised that people feel entitled for a hobbyist publisher to fulfil their personal desires. Did you know he is not required to sell any more copies than he wants to?

B>
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Mary Weisbeck
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These days, $45 for a game with lots of tiles, special ceramic pieces and shipping from overseas is not a bad price. I say, if you can squeeze it into your budget, go for it.
 
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Mary Spilman
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I just saw this post with 14 days to go on the Kickstarter I love animal games and think its worth it! Thanks for the post!
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Michael Frost

Iowa
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I don't think of Cwali Games as a "hobbyist" publisher?

http://www.cwali.nl/

And hoping to see Cwali sell games in USA hardly is wanting any "entitlement". We just like many of their games and hope to see them sold in USA.
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Scott Kovatch
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sodaklady wrote:
These days, $45 for a game with lots of tiles, special ceramic pieces and shipping from overseas is not a bad price. I say, if you can squeeze it into your budget, go for it.


Well, 45 euros is about $50 today, but still, I'm inclined to agree with you -- that's not a bad deal. I've spent that for games like Citrus or the Orléans expansion.
 
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michael c
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thepackrat wrote:


I'm quite surprised that people feel entitled for a hobbyist publisher to fulfil their personal desires. Did you know he is not required to sell any more copies than he wants to?

B>



I don't recall anyone claiming they were entitled to anything, let alone someone fulfilling their personal desires. What a bizarre thing to say.
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Joe Wyka
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MPMelanchthon wrote:
I don't think of Cwali Games as a "hobbyist" publisher.


Cwali is definitely "hobbyist". All of the games are designed and published by one guy. You can't get more hobbyist than that, even if he does have a website! I'm sure he would license if approached by the right publisher, but most of his games are quirky enough that publishers would have trouble selling widely and also have trouble selling to a particular niche. But if he published a game that was widely acclaimed, I'm sure it would get a re-boot from someone else. Factory Fun did, but even that game, as brilliant as it is, has a limited audience for the very challenging puzzles it presents!

Treefrog by Martin Wallace was similar. Designers design because they love to design. If a designer also self-publishes, it is usually to retain control and not have publishers tweak and re-theme the games, which they are at liberty to do. If Corne can live and design under his own terms and that's important to him, then more power to him! Clearly publishing more widely to the US is more "business" than he wants to get involved with and someone else's problem, should they choose to take it on.

Of course, I don't know the guy. I'm reading into things here, but he's not alone in how he goes about things. There are lots of great designers that have gone down the same route: Martin Wallace, Nate Hayden, the Splotter duo, and so on. They have my respect for knowing themselves and drawing their boundaries. They are major factors in why this remains a unique and fascinating hobby!
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Pieter
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joewyka wrote:
MPMelanchthon wrote:
I don't think of Cwali Games as a "hobbyist" publisher.


Cwali is definitely "hobbyist". All of the games are designed and published by one guy. You can't get more hobbyist than that, even if he does have a website! I'm sure he would license if approached by the right publisher, but most of his games are quirky enough that publishers would have trouble selling widely and also have trouble selling to a particular niche. But if he published a game that was widely acclaimed, I'm sure it would get a re-boot from someone else. Factory Fun did, but even that game, as brilliant as it is, has a limited audience for the very challenging puzzles it presents!

Treefrog by Martin Wallace was similar. Designers design because they love to design. If a designer also self-publishes, it is usually to retain control and not have publishers tweak and re-theme the games, which they are at liberty to do. If Corne can live and design under his own terms and that's important to him, then more power to him! Clearly publishing more widely to the US is more "business" than he wants to get involved with and someone else's problem, should they choose to take it on.

Of course, I don't know the guy. I'm reading into things here, but he's not alone in how he goes about things. There are lots of great designers that have gone down the same route: Martin Wallace, Nate Hayden, the Splotter duo, and so on. They have my respect for knowing themselves and drawing their boundaries. They are major factors in why this remains a unique and fascinating hobby!

Actually, this is quite incorrect. Corne van Moorsel makes his living of designing, building, and selling board games. You can't get more professional than that!

And many of his games have seen a US release, sometimes under a different name and a re-theme. But I think that nowadays he gets most of his income from kickstarting games.

AFAIK the limited print run of Habitats is only because he is running out of ceramic figurines. If he had more in stock, he might have produced more. Who knows, if Habitats is a big seller he might do a second print run (I have no information on that), but Corne has a pretty good idea of how much he can sell in a relatively short period of time. So I guess that if he would know that he could sell 2000 extra copies in a few months, he would have made sure that he produced those. But evidently he is pretty confident that a thousands copies is more or less the limit for this game.

By the way, I bought Habitats at Essen because, while I am usually not a big fan of Corne's games (Factory Fun is great, but most other Cwali games I have played are too light for my tastes), I think Habitats is a really good game with some original mechanisms. Totally worth it.
 
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Michael Frost

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This is what Corne wrote 5 days ago on the KS comments section for his Habitats:

"The Habitats games I got Wednesday [10/12/16]. Super production quality IMO. And everything works perfect. 1092 games produced in total."

So that is a mere 1,092 games for the entire world, including all those who KSed it and all those who bought a copy at Essen this past weekend, where he was demonstrating the game. That likely accounts for the vast majority of games that will be available.

It doesn't appear there are plans for any other release. Though, I guess time will tell. You might ask him directly. Just go to the Habitats KS page. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cwali/habitats/comments
 
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