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Spartacus: A Game of Blood & Treachery» Forums » Rules

Subject: Theokoles and Ludi Romani rss

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The Ambit
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How have people played this, and is there any rule support to their conclusion:

Theokoles cannot have teamates. By the book, you cannot send him as the fourth combatant to a primus during the invite step.

However, if a primus is called with Ludi Romani and 4 other gladiators are sent, can Theokoles' owner swap out his gladiator during the fight and replace him with Theokoles? All I can find is that he can't be chosen during the accept invite stage as the fourth guy.

Would he be able to swap and his teamate just switch sides?

If not, if only one gladiator remains on a team, could that gladiator THEN swap for Theokoles? I'm leaning toward this one.
 
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Geppo Muzzak
Italy
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I don't remember the card right now but I'll let you know because we have a 5 player match coming in 3 hours. I think this is subject to an interpretation giving the Host the final decision on what's gonna happen but I'll check the cards later.
 
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Geppo Muzzak
Italy
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When you're invited and you accept you must immediately call on your gladiator. Teokoles can never be the 4th guy so if you only have Teokoles when you're invited you either use a slave or you must decline and lose 1 pt influence. You can't "rig the match" with Teokoles and you can't simply talk about switching sides because it's the host who decides the teams and the host obviously must take into account the limits on the primus (3 gladiators only if one of those invited calls on Teokoles).

In other words, the only "swapping" I know is with rigging the match and you can use it ... but not in the Primus... because Teokoles by himself forces the host to restrict the invitations once he's called into the arena.

Yesterdays' match ended bad for me (4th on 5 players, I played Solonius). I could have pulled this through but I had a festival when only gladiators with weapons could be called upon and I had no weapons. :-(

My uncle took Spartacus in an auction and basically won twice in the arena with no contests. None of us had gladiators up to the task but we were slowly gaining economic strength to purchase enough influence through cards and launch the assault.

Uncle was Glaber my cousin was second with Calavius.
Disappointing! :-)
 
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The Ambit
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You're not considering the card Ludi Romani. It allows gladiator swapping DURING the match where the rules about accepting invitations do not apply. Hence the question
 
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Geppo Muzzak
Italy
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You can't use Teokoles in a team, the moment you swap him, his card rule goes into play AFTER the ludi romani has been played.
 
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The Ambit
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So you think it becomes a 3v1 at that point?
 
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Geppo Muzzak
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Nope, the way I see it, there's a hierarchy in the rules.
1) Handbook.
2) Cards.
3) Gladiators.

The Theokoles rule to be unable to be in a team prevails over the ludi romani card that allows the swapping. You can't swap a guy to make him go to Teokoles team, nor can you start a match with Teokoles having a teammate since a) as 4th invited, his player CANNOT pick him (his card rule NO TEAM MATE prevails), b) if Teokoles is called upon invitation by his dominus, the host's invitations must take into account he's a 2-man team.

So Teokoles can't be in 3vs1 because he can't "spawn" with a teammate that switches, nor can he be pitted against 3 gladiators in any case since a team can only be formed by 2 gladiators.

Just think of Teokoles as a 2-man team and this rule prevailing on all others. That's my understanding of it.
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Ser Tyrell
United States
Idaho
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I have to disagree Geppo-

I know I'm a couple months late to the party here, but we had this come up the other night.

Theokoles' Shadow of Death ability says "No teammate in Primus" on the card but it is more specific in the rule book. The rule book talks about "Committing" Theo to a primus. He may not be the second invite for a team and if he is the first invite, there will be no second invite. The rule uses the "committing" language multiple times and thus we ruled that he may be swapped in during Ludi Romani and create a team of 2 without violating Shadows of Death.

His rule as per the book confirms that Treacherous gladiators may not join HIS team and this led to another issue because Ashur was in the Primus. Ashur used his treacherous ability to switch teams BEFORE Theo was swapped in. Therefore THEO joined the team instead of the other way around. We ultimately decided (by close margin) that no rule had been violated (shadows of death or treacherous) and allowed the 3 v 1 slaughter.
 
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