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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question on Adjacency + Most Damage rss

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Sophia Phil
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Hi,

I have a couple of questions:

1. In the Mythos Phase, the app has asked us to move a monster (Deep One) two spaces to be adjacent to as many investigators as possible. The two options the app gave us were: A. Monster Attacks. B. No investigators adjacent.

In our game, the monster could move, with two steps, to the room adjacent to us (connected through a wall and non-barricaded door). The question is, does the monster attack from the adjacent room, through the door? The two options the app provides seems to suggest it does, but then that conflicts with what one is typically allowed to do "through the door" (since we would not be in the monster's range).

2. How do you determine which investigator is to be attacked when the investigator with most horror/damage is to be attacked? Suppose you have Investigator 1 who has ONE INSANE CARD + 1 HORROR CARD, and Investigator 2 who has 3 HORROR CARDS (and no insane card). Does one resolve this by only looking at the individual horror (or damage) cards, in which case Investigator 2 gets attacked, or does one also account for the insane card (and translates it into the number of horror cards this insane card was worth) in which case Investigator 1 gets attacked?

Thank you!
 
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Zen
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2.investigator 2 is hit. Insane doesn't count as a horror nor does it count as your previous horrors.
 
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Trevor Wilson
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To answer your first question - yes.

The two spaces that share a door are adjacent, and monsters can freely use doors that are not barricaded. There is not such thing in this game as "open" or "closed" doors. Range (LOS) does not count through a door, but adjacency would.

Second question - as above already answered I think.
 
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Chris Lawson
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B5x5S wrote:
1. In the Mythos Phase, the app has asked us to move a monster (Deep One) two spaces to be adjacent to as many investigators as possible. The two options the app gave us were: A. Monster Attacks. B. No investigators adjacent.

In our game, the monster could move, with two steps, to the room adjacent to us (connected through a wall and non-barricaded door). The question is, does the monster attack from the adjacent room, through the door? The two options the app provides seems to suggest it does, but then that conflicts with what one is typically allowed to do "through the door" (since we would not be in the monster's range).

If you look up Adjacent in the Rules Reference, you will see that...

* Rooms and spaces separated by a wall are still adjacent.

If you look up Wall in the Rules Reference, you will see that...

* There is no mention that walls block attacks.

If you look up Attack Action in the Rules Reference, you will see that...

* For an Investigator to attack, they must be in the same space, or within range. This means, for an Investigator, walls would block an attack.
* Unfortunately, there is no mention if this also applies to Monsters as well or if they use their own rules.

In the example you gave, there is no mention of Range, so there's no reason to apply the restriction of the monster having to be within range.

I believe the current understanding is that the monster will be able to attack from the adjacent room, "through" the wall. Even if there was no door, it would seem the app is telling you to attack from an adjacent room through the wall.
B5x5S wrote:
2. How do you determine which investigator is to be attacked when the investigator with most horror/damage is to be attacked? Suppose you have Investigator 1 who has ONE INSANE CARD + 1 HORROR CARD, and Investigator 2 who has 3 HORROR CARDS (and no insane card). Does one resolve this by only looking at the individual horror (or damage) cards, in which case Investigator 2 gets attacked, or does one also account for the insane card (and translates it into the number of horror cards this insane card was worth) in which case Investigator 1 gets attacked?

There's no mention in the rules about counting an Insane Card as multiple Horror Cards (or a Wounded Card as multiple Damage Cards).

An Insane card is a Condition Card, not a Horror Card.
A Wounded card is a Condition Card, not a Damage Card.
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Trevor Wilson
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xris wrote:

.......

If you look up Adjacent in the Rules Reference, you will see that...

* Rooms and spaces separated by a wall are still adjacent.

If you look up Wall in the Rules Reference, you will see that...

* There is no mention that walls block attacks.

........

I believe the current understanding is that the monster will be able to attack from the adjacent room, "through" the wall. Even if there was no door, it would seem the app is telling you to attack from an adjacent room through the wall.


Whilst I can see that by the Letter of the Law (rules reference) that is the case, the spirit of the Law (common sense) would suggest that, that should not be possible - it doesn't really make sense.

If the walls were, let us say, damaged enough to allow the monsters to attack through them, surely they should then be allowed to walk through them as well.

I believe that the rule for the investigators will also apply to the monsters - must be in Range and adjacent or same space.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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This would be a case of an effect that affects adjacent spaces, which is disallowed in the Walls section. So no, the monster cannot attack through a wall. It can attack through a door though.
 
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Chris Lawson
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Clipper wrote:
This would be a case of an effect that affects adjacent spaces, which is disallowed in the Walls section. So no, the monster cannot attack through a wall. It can attack through a door though.

The paragraph in the Wall section is as follows...

Effects that affect adjacent spaces cannot affect spaces through
walls unless an effect specifically allows it.


I must admit that I took it to be referring to effects like Fire and Darkness as they would affect a space. I felt that an attack wasn't applying to the adjacent space but to an investigator in the space.

Fair enough. That makes me a lot happier than Monster being able to attack through walls.

I must say that sections of the Rules Reference are so obscure. Would it really kill the RR if it said this in plain English in a relevant section
 
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Chris Lawson
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Here is a new version of my above reply, I hope it's now correct

B5x5S wrote:
1. In the Mythos Phase, the app has asked us to move a monster (Deep One) two spaces to be adjacent to as many investigators as possible. The two options the app gave us were: A. Monster Attacks. B. No investigators adjacent.

In our game, the monster could move, with two steps, to the room adjacent to us (connected through a wall and non-barricaded door). The question is, does the monster attack from the adjacent room, through the door? The two options the app provides seems to suggest it does, but then that conflicts with what one is typically allowed to do "through the door" (since we would not be in the monster's range).

If you look up Adjacent in the Rules Reference, you will see that...

* Rooms and spaces separated by a wall or door are still adjacent.

If you look up Wall in the Rules Reference, you will see that...

* While there is no mention that walls block attacks, it does say...
Quote:
Effects that affect adjacent spaces cannot affect spaces through
walls unless an effect specifically allows it.

* Since an attack is an effect, then the attack cannot affect an adjacent space if there is a wall between the spaces.

If you look up Door in the Rules Reference, you will see that...

* There is no mention that doors block attacks (or effects).

If you look up Attack Action in the Rules Reference, you will see that...

* For an Investigator to attack, they must be in the same space, or within range. This means, for an Investigator, walls and doors would block an attack.
* Unfortunately, there is no mention if this also applies to Monsters as well or if they use their own rules.

In the example you gave, there is no mention of Range, so there's no reason to apply the restriction of the monster having to be within range.

I now believe the current understanding is that the monster will be able to attack from the adjacent room through the door, but not through the wall.
 
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Jeff Hoffman
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xris wrote:
I now believe the current understanding is that the monster will be able to attack from the adjacent room through the door, but not through the wall.


This is correct. Although a Ghost is an exception and will attack through walls.
 
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Chris Lawson
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Gamemaster wrote:
xris wrote:
I now believe the current understanding is that the monster will be able to attack from the adjacent room through the door, but not through the wall.

Although a Ghost is an exception and will attack through walls.

I assume that's only because the apps states so. If so, then that could apply to any monster, not just the Ghost.

On the back of the Ghost monster token it states...

Phasing - This monster can move through impassable borders and walls.

It doesn't mean that the Ghost can inherently attack through walls, the exception in this case isn't the Ghost but the app stating that a specific monster can attack through walls.

Back on the question of monsters attacking adjacent spaces...

Barricade, Secret Passage.
I also note that if the door is barricaded, the monster should still be able to attack through the door. Same with Secret Passages, a monster is able to make use of secret passages and attack through them. At least, at this point in time, I don't see anything that disallows this.
 
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Johnny Li
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xris wrote:

Barricade, Secret Passage.
I also note that if the door is barricaded, the monster should still be able to attack through the door. Same with Secret Passages, a monster is able to make use of secret passages and attack through them. At least, at this point in time, I don't see anything that disallows this.


Does that mean I can also cast spells over the barricade as well?
 
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Chris Lawson
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reptile18 wrote:
xris wrote:

Barricade, Secret Passage.
I also note that if the door is barricaded, the monster should still be able to attack through the door. Same with Secret Passages, a monster is able to make use of secret passages and attack through them. At least, at this point in time, I don't see anything that disallows this.


Does that mean I can also cast spells over the barricade as well?

No. My comment above only applies to monsters attacking adjacent spaces.

If you (i.e. your investigator) wants to cast an attack spell, then it has to be within range. Doors (barricaded or not) block range.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The only way it would be possible for Investigators to attack through doors is if a weapon stated it could attack adjacent spaces. No such weapon currently exists.

There is at least one item that does work through doors for Investigators, though. The Fire Extinguisher can extinguish fires in your and neighbouring spaces, and it would thus be usable through a door or impassable space separators (dotted yellow lines), but not through a wall.
 
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Chris Lawson
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Clipper wrote:
There is at least one item that does work through doors for Investigators, though. The Fire Extinguisher can extinguish fires in your and neighbouring spaces, and it would thus be usable through a door or impassable space separators (dotted yellow lines), but not through a wall.

And the weird thing is that a Fire Extinguisher would also work through secret passages

And, Fire Extinguishers would also work through secret passages that have the far end barricaded!
 
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Sophia Phil
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Hi Everyone! Thank you for your very helpful comments. It's our first time playing MoM (don't have the first ed) so it's a bit of a learning curve :-)
 
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Paul S
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Can't help but think the assymetry between investigator and monster attacks is unhelpful. Why o why couldn't we have monsters that attack in range as defined, or in same space, just like investigators? That would've avoided a lot of this debate.

Still. On the whole I am happy with the rules. And hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 
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