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Project: ELITE – Adrenaline» Forums » Rules

Subject: Sandra and Demolition rss

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Marco Reubzaet
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I was wondering about Sandra's ability to unlock one die from a single-use slot.

It is clear to me that it cannot be used for Capture or Elimination missions, since these check for dice being present on each of the dice slots on the tile at the end of the Action Phase or Turn respectively (if I am not mistaken).

However, since the Demolition tile is only taken from the player's inventory once all the dice are on it, I wonder if this has the same limitations. The rule book merely states: that a Demolition tile is considered completed if it "has been filled and placed". Does this mean it still has to be filled at the time the action phase ends?

Also, in case Sandra can unlock a die from the tile but it does have to be filled at the end of the Action Phase, does this mean:
A) the player controlling Sandra has to take the Demolition tile after unlocking one of its dice?
B) the player who owns the tile has to take it back?
C) the tile remains on the board and can be re-filled by any player during the current Action Phase and has to be taken back by its owner only if it is not completely filled at the end of the Action Phase?

(Please note that I am aware that the die from the Casualty slot cannot be unlocked in any case, as it is not a single-use slot.)

Many thanks in advance for answering my question
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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Co1980 wrote:
I was wondering about Sandra's ability to unlock one die from a single-use slot.

It is clear to me that it cannot be used for Capture or Elimination missions, since these check for dice being present on each of the dice slots on the tile at the end of the Action Phase or Turn respectively (if I am not mistaken).

However, since the Demolition tile is only taken from the player's inventory once all the dice are on it, I wonder if this has the same limitations. The rule book merely states: that a Demolition tile is considered completed if it "has been filled and placed". Does this mean it still has to be filled at the time the action phase ends?

Also, in case Sandra can unlock a die from the tile but it does have to be filled at the end of the Action Phase, does this mean:
A) the player controlling Sandra has to take the Demolition tile after unlocking one of its dice?
B) the player who owns the tile has to take it back?
C) the tile remains on the board and can be re-filled by any player during the current Action Phase and has to be taken back by its owner only if it is not completely filled at the end of the Action Phase?

(Please note that I am aware that the die from the Casualty slot cannot be unlocked in any case, as it is not a single-use slot.)

Many thanks in advance for answering my question


Short answer: Sandra cannot take advantage of her Ability on Demolition tiles because that would render them incomplete.

Long answer: Each Demolition tile can only be filled by the player who has it on his/her possession (although it can exchange hands as if it was a Weapon/Item). Once it is filled with dice, it is then placed on the Game Board an any of the Objective Slots (indicated by the Setup card). Only one Demolition tile can be placed on each such Slot.

Technically, Sandra is allowed to take a die back from the Demolition tile AFTER it has been placed on the Game Board and use it for other purposes. However, that would mean that the tile must be immediately returned to the player who owns it(had the tile in his/her possession before it was placed on the Game Board) since it is now considered incomplete. If later during the Action Phase, the player places all the required symbols on the tile again, it can once more be placed on the designated position on the Game Board. In other words, if needed you can take a die back, but you will also have to take the tile back.

The objective is considered complete at the end of the Action Phase and so all dice have to be present at that point.

To sum up, Objective-wise, Sandra may only take actual advantage of her ability on the Recovery and Recon Objectives.

I hope this helps.


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Marco Reubzaet
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As always, your answer was very fast and helpful!

Just to make sure I fully grasp this:
- I understand the tile is returned to its owner (Sandra or a player adjacent to her when she uses her ability)?
- Do the other dice remain on the tile when it is returned to player's inventory, or are they considered 'spent' and do they come off as well?

I am asking because I can imagine several instances where it might be beneficial for a team to undo the placement of a Demolition tile in order to free up dice or to allow a different player to place a more efficient tile.
 
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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Co1980 wrote:
As always, your answer was very fast and helpful!

Just to make sure I fully grasp this:
- I understand the tile is returned to its owner (Sandra or a player adjacent to her when she uses her ability)?
- Do the other dice remain on the tile when it is returned to player's inventory, or are they considered 'spent' and do they come off as well?

I am asking because I can imagine several instances where it might be beneficial for a team to undo the placement of a Demolition tile in order to free up dice or to allow a different player to place a more efficient tile.


I edited the previous post to make it clear that the tile is returned to its owner, as you mentioned in your post.

All other dice on the Demolition tile must remain on the tile after it gets returned to its owner because of Sandra's ability. Only the one that got unlocked by Sandra is available.

Thanks
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Marco Reubzaet
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What I really like is how your answers always make perfect sense when looking at the rules as printed, so I can imagine how you guys did not think it would be necessary to elaborate on them. I guess we all just overthink everything

Once again, thank you so much for your great and swift support!
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James Palmer
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Can Sandra take back dice from Event cards, or from weapons / items?

I've been playing yes, to both so far, but am wondering if I'm possibly playing something wrong. Items and Weapons make sense to me, in the sense that those weapons / items are with me, so are on my space. But I'm not sure about Event cards though.

Any chance for an official clarification?
 
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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Felkor wrote:
Can Sandra take back dice from Event cards, or from weapons / items?

I've been playing yes, to both so far, but am wondering if I'm possibly playing something wrong. Items and Weapons make sense to me, in the sense that those weapons / items are with me, so are on my space. But I'm not sure about Event cards though.

Any chance for an official clarification?


She can take back dice from weapons and items. She can even do it from Events but once the Action Phase has ended, the Event will be considered incomplete so the only reason to remove a die from an Event would be because something became a bigger priority.
 
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James Palmer
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3pod wrote:
Felkor wrote:
Can Sandra take back dice from Event cards, or from weapons / items?

I've been playing yes, to both so far, but am wondering if I'm possibly playing something wrong. Items and Weapons make sense to me, in the sense that those weapons / items are with me, so are on my space. But I'm not sure about Event cards though.

Any chance for an official clarification?


She can take back dice from weapons and items. She can even do it from Events but once the Action Phase has ended, the Event will be considered incomplete so the only reason to remove a die from an Event would be because something became a bigger priority.


Thanks for the quick reply. I'm a bit confused about your comment about the events though, since, according to the rules, "as soon as all symbols have been contributed, any effect that would take place later during the Round is instead cancelled and the Event is discarded." Completing an event happens during the Action Phase, not at the end of it, so if the Event were completed, and the card discarded, could Sandra then take the die back?

Thanks again!
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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Felkor wrote:
3pod wrote:
Felkor wrote:
Can Sandra take back dice from Event cards, or from weapons / items?

I've been playing yes, to both so far, but am wondering if I'm possibly playing something wrong. Items and Weapons make sense to me, in the sense that those weapons / items are with me, so are on my space. But I'm not sure about Event cards though.

Any chance for an official clarification?


She can take back dice from weapons and items. She can even do it from Events but once the Action Phase has ended, the Event will be considered incomplete so the only reason to remove a die from an Event would be because something became a bigger priority.


Thanks for the quick reply. I'm a bit confused about your comment about the events though, since, according to the rules, "as soon as all symbols have been contributed, any effect that would take place later during the Round is instead cancelled and the Event is discarded." Completing an event happens during the Action Phase, not at the end of it, so if the Event were completed, and the card discarded, could Sandra then take the die back?

Thanks again!


I'm afraid I'll need to check the rules once more, but checking if an Event is complete should take place at the end of the Action Phase since it it until then that you can complete it.

EDIT: It is not perfectly clear but the last row in page 15 sort of explains it "If the Action Phase ends and players failed to contribute all the required symbols, the Event remains in effect..." so that is when all dice need to be in place.
 
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James Palmer
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3pod wrote:
Felkor wrote:
3pod wrote:
Felkor wrote:
Can Sandra take back dice from Event cards, or from weapons / items?

I've been playing yes, to both so far, but am wondering if I'm possibly playing something wrong. Items and Weapons make sense to me, in the sense that those weapons / items are with me, so are on my space. But I'm not sure about Event cards though.

Any chance for an official clarification?


She can take back dice from weapons and items. She can even do it from Events but once the Action Phase has ended, the Event will be considered incomplete so the only reason to remove a die from an Event would be because something became a bigger priority.


Thanks for the quick reply. I'm a bit confused about your comment about the events though, since, according to the rules, "as soon as all symbols have been contributed, any effect that would take place later during the Round is instead cancelled and the Event is discarded." Completing an event happens during the Action Phase, not at the end of it, so if the Event were completed, and the card discarded, could Sandra then take the die back?

Thanks again!


I'm afraid I'll need to check the rules once more, but checking if an Event is complete should take place at the end of the Action Phase since it it until then that you can complete it.


Thanks for looking into it. If what you say is true, certain events (like the one where one character can't move) become much more difficult (and frustrating) to play, as you're sentencing a character for sure to not move for an entire round. And it doesn't seem to jive with the text from the rulebook I just quoted.


(On a side note, just wanted to say how much I LOVE this game. My favourite new game in a long time - play it every time I can, and my 6 year old son and I play it together a couple times a week.)

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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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I edited my previous post and added the important part. Yes, Events are sort of divided between some that you can totally avoid and some that will happen at least once.

I am glad you enjoy the game
 
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James Palmer
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3pod wrote:
I edited my previous post and added the important part. Yes, Events are sort of divided between some that you can totally avoid and some that will happen at least once.

I am glad you enjoy the game


Thanks again. I'm still just a bit confused - I'm sorry to bug you about this, and hope you're still up for what is (hopefully) a final clarification.

So right now we have these 2 rules:

"If the Action Phase ends and players failed to contribute all the required symbols, the Event remains in effect..."

and

"as soon as all symbols have been contributed, any effect that would take place later during the Round is instead cancelled and the Event is discarded."

My original interpretation took both of these into account, but it sounds like I have misinterpreted.

Let me go through a scenario and you can tell me if if I've got it right, or where I'm getting it wrong.

Playing 2 players, with Sandra and Bus.

Scenario A

1) I draw an Event Card. It's the one that means one of the players must choose not move.

2) We draw aliens, and begin the Action Phase.

3) Sandra and Bus each contribute one die, and thus all dice have been contributed.

Since "as soon as all symbols have been contributed, any effect that would take place later during the Round is instead cancelled", the restriction that Bus can't move for the rest of the round is cancelled, and now Bus can move again.

4) Sandra takes her die back. (Here's where I'm not sure - can Bus not move anymore again?)

5) Action Phase ends, and since Sandra took the die back, the event is not removed, and is still in effect for the next round.



OR...

Scenario B

Same as above, only with #3, the text "later during the round" refers to later stages, and thus Bus still can't move for the whole round, no matter what happens, whether Sandra takes her die back or not.


I'm guessing you mean the Scenario B is correct. It just makes the statement that "as soon as all dice are contributed...the Event is discarded" very misleading.

Anyway, I'm not concerned if the rules are confusing - just want to start playing it right!

Thanks!
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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It is indeed Scenario B as the Action Phase is only a part of the Round.

and "as soon as all symbols have been contributed, any effect that would take place later during the Round is instead cancelled and the Event is discarded." is definitely not clear enough.

Our apologies blush




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James Palmer
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Thanks!
 
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