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Subject: Two Timing Issues & an Obligatory Governor Question rss

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Nate
United States
Winston-Salem
North Carolina
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Played with my dad recently and came into some unique situations that I do not believe are addressed in the rules.

1) I placed a windmill such that two of my dad's windmills were completed. One had a governor, and one did not. Who gets to choose which of his windmills are scored first? I was wanting the one with the governor scored first because he wouldn't meet the quota, he'd lose 5 points, and then the governor would immediately go to the other windmill, and he'd lose another 5 points. If the one without were scored first, he'd score the first one normally, and just lose 5 points on the second one.

2) In the same game, my dad placed a mill tile without having any windmills in his possession. However, the placement scored one of his already-placed windmills. The rulebook states that you build a mill on a mill tile that he has "just placed." Yet "as soon as any player's mill tile is completely surrounded, he immediately harvests there." It's a conflict of two immediate events in which in one scenario he wouldn't have a mill to claim his just-placed mill tile, whereas if he immediately harvests his completely surrounded mill he would have one to claim it.

3) Bear with me on this one. We had another recent game where an issue of governor movement was in question. If you don't meet the quota of the governor, he "immediately moves on to the nearest mill, next to which there is not yet another governmor. Of course, he only moves across developed squares." In our game, the nearest mill was only 3 or 4 hexes away, but there was a gap of undeveloped tiles in between them, and if he only moved across the developed squares -- like took a journey to get to that mill -- he would have come into proximity to a different mill that was only 2 hexes away. So do you find the nearest mill from the starting position and simply see if there is a connected path? Or do you evaluate the path the governor will take and see which mill is closest along that route?

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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Ben
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Atlanta
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1. I'm having trouble picturing this. If you placed a mill that completed two mills, wouldn't your mill have to be adjacent to both of them, making your mill the nearest mill? Were they also adjacent to each other?

In any event, you are correct that the rules do not specify. What they do say, however, is that the active player scores his/her mill(s) and then other players score in clockwise order. Based on the fact that each player's scoring is separate from the others, I would let the player scoring choose the order.


2. There are three phases to a turn: 1. Purchase, 2. Reclamation, 3. Harvest. They are performed in order. Placing a mill happens during reclamation. Getting a mill back happens later, during harvest.


3. There is an example in the rule book that shows distance is calculated based on the path the governor would actually travel.
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Nate
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Winston-Salem
North Carolina
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1. Mills can be placed next to any developed tile, and this was a 0 mill which I did not claim. It was only intended to force him to score his two and not meet the current quota.

2. I did not realize that there were specified segments in the turn, so that does clear it up.

3. The example in the rulebook doesn't reflect the scenario I was trying to give. Imagine if the 7 tulip tile was two hexes away -- adjacent to the 2 mill, 3 mill, and farm in the bottom corner. At the time of scoring, the other orange mill is technically closest -- only two hexes away -- but along the path the governor must take to get there, he'd have to go through the grey mill and it would be closest.
 
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Eric Amick
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littleturd wrote:

3. The example in the rulebook doesn't reflect the scenario I was trying to give. Imagine if the 7 tulip tile was two hexes away -- adjacent to the 2 mill, 3 mill, and farm in the bottom corner. At the time of scoring, the other orange mill is technically closest -- only two hexes away -- but along the path the governor must take to get there, he'd have to go through the grey mill and it would be closest.


The rules say nothing about the new mill having to be the same color as the old mill. In fact, the example in the rule book strongly implies color doesn't matter; if it did matter, why mention the gray mill at all?
 
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Ben
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littleturd wrote:
3. The example in the rulebook doesn't reflect the scenario I was trying to give. Imagine if the 7 tulip tile was two hexes away -- adjacent to the 2 mill, 3 mill, and farm in the bottom corner. At the time of scoring, the other orange mill is technically closest -- only two hexes away -- but along the path the governor must take to get there, he'd have to go through the grey mill and it would be closest.


I apologize. I was misreading the state of the game board in the example. It does appear that this is not clearly stated in the rules, as I had thought.

I have always played that the nearest mill is the one that the governor can reach in the fewest number of legal moves. So, in your example, the other orange mill is not closet because distance would be calculated by the path the governor actually travels. The grey mill would be 3 hexes away. The orange mill would be 5 hexes away. I can't imagine that the designer intended for a governor to travel through mills in order to reach "the closest" mill.


Let's try thinking about it a different way. The rules state that the governor can only move across developed squares. However, all landscape tiles must touch a mill, and all mills must touch developed hexes. This means that all mills are connected to all other mills by developed hexes.

The rule requiring governors to travel across developed areas would thus be entirely pointless when distance is calculated across undeveloped hexes. There would be no difference between having the rule and not having the rule. It seems to me that any interpretation of an ambiguity that renders another rule superfluous is an incorrect interpretation.

Hope this helps.
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Nate
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Winston-Salem
North Carolina
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Ben,

I tend to agree with you on all counts. It's not explicit in the rulebook, but that seems the most logical way to play.
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Michael Frost

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According to the rules on Governors:

In the "Governor" section of the rules:

- "If the yield is less than the trading house number, the player's harvest underperforms. After the harvest, the player loses 5 points on the scoring track. The governor immediately moves on to the nearest mill, next to which there is not yet another governor. (This can also be another mill of the same player.) Of course, he only moves across developed squares."

Then in the "What happens if...?" section of the "Tactical game":

- "?...the governor wants to move to the nearest mill, but there are two (or more) mills with the same distance? ! The player whose turn it is decides where the governor moves to."

So seems self explanatory. He can only move over developed spaces, so you can only use developed spaces to determine which Mill is closest to him. The Governor ignores undeveloped spaces; he can't count that which hasn't been developed (and may never be developed). And if there is a tie distance, the current player decides where the Governor goes.

The example in the "Governor" section clearly only discusses and uses developed tiles, not undeveloped squares regarding the movement of the Governor.

Thus how the players develop the land impacts the movement of Governors.
 
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