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Subject: Corner cases in the "one spell per gesture" rule rss

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Arthur O'Dwyer
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In this question I'll be using an "interleaved regular expression" notation that is less ambiguous than the standard notation. For example, "p.p.wwss" in my notation means "left hand proffer, right hand could do anything (I don't care what); left hand proffer, right hand don't care; left and right both wave; left and right both snap", i.e., the formula for Invisibility.

http://www.gamecabinet.com/rules/WavingHands.html says:
Quote:

The uniqueness of the game, however, is that a single gesture in more than one series and, hence, can be used to cast more than one spell. Gestures may be used in multiple series provided that:

* the gestures have been made in the correct sequence without interruption
* no more than one spell is created per gesture
* all gestures for one spell are made with the same hand


The first bullet point makes perfect sense.

The third bullet point is IMHO technically-inaccurate, because some formulas (e.g. "p.p.wwss" Invisibility) require using two hands for one spell. But I think we all know what it means.

The second bullet point is extremely unclear to me. Let me summarize what I think I do know:

Suppose I do "ssdd". That casts Missile with both hands, i.e., two missiles. (This happens at turns 16 and 19 of the sample game, so it's definitely correct.)

Suppose I do "sdspsp". This casts my choice of either Amnesia or Shield with my right hand this turn, but not both. "One spell per hand per turn" is definitely a rule.

Suppose I do "sdsp". This casts Shield with my right hand. Suppose on the following turn I continue with "sp" again; this casts my choice of either Amnesia or Shield, as above. My first "p" gesture has participated in two spells: the Shield on turn 2, and the Shield-or-Amnesia on turn 3. (This happens at turn 11 of the sample game, so it's definitely correct.)

To take a less trivial example of gesture-participating-in-two-spells: any time you cast "f.s.s.d.d." Fireball, you'll have the opportunity to cast "s.d." Missile on the turn before your Fireball goes off, in addition to the Fireball.

Okay, now for my corner case questions...

(A) Now suppose I do "wpwpwwss". (This is an example from the rules, right in the vicinity of the bullet points I'm confused about.) The example says that I must choose one of "w.w.s." Counter-Spell or ".p.pwwss" Invisibility — I don't get to cast both of them, because that would double-use the "w.s." suffix sequence.

I don't understand the exact rule that disallows casting Counter-Spell with my left hand and Invisibility with my right hand.

(B) Now suppose I do "ccsswwwwss". This casts Elemental at least once. Does it cast Elemental twice, since I completed the formula with both hands? Remember that "ssdd" definitely casts Missile twice. The potential difference in this case is that I had to use both of my hands for the single clap at the beginning.

(C) Now suppose I do "p.w.pswpwpcc" — that's Haste with my left hand and Time Stop with my right hand, aligned so that the clap is part of both. Does this cast both Haste and Time Stop, or only one of them (of my choice)?

(D) Suppose I do "p.p.wwssspcc". On turn 4 I cast Invisibility. On turn 6, I have apparently completed "w.s.s.cc"; does this cast Ice Storm, or is it disqualified because I can't "double-use" the "wwss" gestures on turns 3 and 4?

(E) Suppose I do "p.p.wwsspscc". On turn 4 I cast Invisibility. On turn 6, I have apparently completed ".w.s.scc"; does this[/b] cast Ice Storm? (The potential difference from (D) is that this time I cast Ice Storm with my [i]right hand.)

(F) A variation on question (B). Suppose I do "wwsssscc". On turn 6, do I cast Ice Storm twice? (The potential difference from (B) is that the "double-used" clap comes at the end of the formula instead of at the beginning. The potential difference from (C) is that I'm trying to cast two copies of the same spell instead of two different spells.)
 
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Keith Anderson
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I've only played this game once online so I won't hazard an answer to your questions but I'm subscribed to this game because it has always fascinated me.

Have you looked at the RavenBlack site - http://games.ravenblack.net/rules/1/intro.html

Also this site has a variant of interest
http://games.ravenblack.net/rules/1/intro.html

 
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Karl Schmit
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A gesture is what happens with one hand on one turn.

FSSDD is not a gesture. FSSDD is a spell, Fireball, composed of 5 separate gestures. F is a festure. S is a gesture, etc.

 
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Arthur O'Dwyer
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One more corner case:

(G) Suppose I do "d.w.f.fsdd". This casts "d.w.f.f.dd" Blindness; does it also cast ".s.d" Missile?

I'm coming around to the idea that the simplest interpretation of that second bullet point is that

- On any given turn, you can cast any spells whose formulas you've just completed, regardless of whatever you did on previous turns; as long as
- the formulas for the spells you do choose to cast this turn must fit together like Tetris pieces; no single gesture may participate in two spell formulas that you want to cast on this single turn.

I'm not explaining it much clearer than the original rules (wording improvements welcome!), but by my current interpretation, the answers are

(A) "wpwpwwss" casts either "w.w.s." Counter-Spell or ".p.pwwss" Invisibility, but not both.

(B) "ccsswwwwss" casts "ccs.w.w.s." Summon Elemental only once. (That is, it casts either "ccs.w.w.s." or "cc.s.w.w.s", but not both.)

(C) "p.w.pswpwpcc" casts either "p.w.p.w.w.cc" Haste or ".s.p.pcc" Time Stop, but not both.

(D) "p.p.wwssspcc" casts "p.p.wwss" Invisibility on turn 4 and then "w.s.s.cc" Ice Storm on turn 6. During turn 6, we no longer care what happened with those gestures on turn 4.

(E) "p.p.wwsspscc" casts "p.p.wwss" Invisibility on turn 4 and then ".w.s.scc" Ice Storm on turn 6.

(F) "wwsssscc" casts "w.s.s.cc" Ice Storm only once. (That is, it casts either "w.s.s.cc" or ".w.s.scc", but not both.)

(G) "d.w.f.fsdd" casts either "d.w.f.f.dd" Blindness or ".s.d" Missile, but not both.
 
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Karl Schmit
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Quuxplusone wrote:


(G) "d.w.f.fsdd" casts either "d.w.f.f.dd" Blindness or ".s.d" Missile, but not both.

This is the correct interpretation.
 
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Arthur O'Dwyer
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ratpfink wrote:
Quuxplusone wrote:


(G) "d.w.f.fsdd" casts either "d.w.f.f.dd" Blindness or ".s.d" Missile, but not both.

This is the correct interpretation.

You mean that's the correct interpretation of (G) but not necessarily of (A–F)? Or are you saying that my intepretations of (A–G) are all correct?
 
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Karl Schmit
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Quuxplusone wrote:
ratpfink wrote:
Quuxplusone wrote:


(G) "d.w.f.fsdd" casts either "d.w.f.f.dd" Blindness or ".s.d" Missile, but not both.

This is the correct interpretation.

You mean that's the correct interpretation of (G) but not necessarily of (A–F)? Or are you saying that my intepretations of (A–G) are all correct?

Looks like A-G were all correct because the "but not both" principle is correct.
 
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