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Apex Theropod Deck-Building Game» Forums » General

Subject: Expansion question rss

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Nick Bos
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Hi!

I recently found out about this game but it's impossible to get a hold of. Luckily, I have to travel to the USA soon for work, and found a shop that has the 2nd edition of this game.

However, it also has many expansions (Saurophaganax, stomping grounds, suchomimus, therizinosaurus).

Some questions:
- Are they compatible with the 2nd edition?
- Are they worth it in your opinion?

Thanks a lot!
 
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Corey A
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Stay far away from this game. The designer is a crook.
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Max Jansson
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All expansions got printed together with 2nd ed. There are no expansions for 1st ed. That said they would certainly be compatible with each other for the most part.
The expansions add more variety, so they will give replayability if that is what you are looking for.
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Max Jansson
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CoreyRIT wrote:
Stay far away from this game. The designer is a crook.


Still is a great game though, the people affected by his crookery ways are us kickstarters, not retail consumers.
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Big Sixer
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What do you mean by crook? What happened? I'm confused? Also, the game and production quality are great.
 
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Krista Donnelly
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A number of Kickstarter backers didn't get the products they backed. He stopped communicating several months ago, and his website was taken down a week or two ago. The Kickstarter backers who were stiffed are feeling justly angry at him.

That said, the game is a great game and a thing of beauty to look at. If you can get it, pick it up and any of the expansions you can find. They add even more variety for you to explore.

I wasn't a Kickstarter backer - I picked it up at retail and chased down most of the Kickstarter exclusives on ebay so I haven't been stiffed. The vibe I get from the whole affair is that the designer got himself in over his head and (guessing only here) spent too much producing the game, and ended up trying to raise more money by selling product to distributors rather than fulfilling the Kickstarter pledges.
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Ben Duerksen
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Here is why people are mad: the designer has not delivered the upgrade/booster packs for anyone who had the first edition (200+ backers), meaning all those copies are completely unplayable. Even if we do end up getting them, which I doubt (see below), there are a good 20 cards he made significant changes to in 2.0, and yet didn't bother to include them in the upgrade pack. He also has yet to fulfill a number of rollover pledges from the first campaign (meaning those people have pledged twice in various ways, and have no game), in addition to not delivering on certain add-on items. He has not posted status updates for months, will not answer e-mails about this or any issue, and will not even respond to people whose full, working 2.0 copies were missing cards. When contacting WinGo, the manufacturer he claimed he had placed the order with and told everyone the cards would all be ready at the end of July, they said they had never gotten the order. Now his website has been taken offline, and he hasn't even logged into kickstarter for almost a full month.

Also, production quality is "great?" First, the majority of the Rex statues were either broken upon arrival, or broke soon after, and the designer claims the manufacturer reneged on their agreement and will not be replacing broken figures. Given the aforementioned situation I highly doubt replacement figures even entered his mind, and that there was likely no agreement. Second, the box is too small to fit sleeved cards even though he claimed they'd fit fine...the only way to make them fit is to basically mangle the insert to make enough room. That's a big deal considering (thirdly) the cards are not of the best quality. Finally, I have serious doubts about the longevity of the central player board: the tape just doesn't seem sturdy to the point where you can almost accidentally fold the board in the completely wrong way. Don't get me wrong- the art is gorgeous, but component-wise the game leaves a fair amount to be desired.

I defended Herschel during the first campaign, but there is no excuse for the issues that have arisen with the second campaign, especially concerning the non-delivery of working games to well over 200 people.

OP: the expansions are for the second edition of the game, and are certainly worth having if you end up getting the game. The game plays excellently solo, and is a decent game multiplayer even though it plays a little long, and still has some nagging mechanical issues IMO.
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Leigh Ryan
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Quote:
the designer has not delivered the upgrade/booster packs for anyone who had the first edition (200+ backers), meaning all those copies are completely unplayable

I'm as annoyed as anyone at not getting their stuff, but you can still play the first edition by the first edition rules which are by-and-large the same and (in the case of the apparently dodgy Battle Royale rules) in some cases better.
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Ben Duerksen
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LineOf7s wrote:
Quote:
the designer has not delivered the upgrade/booster packs for anyone who had the first edition (200+ backers), meaning all those copies are completely unplayable

I'm as annoyed as anyone at not getting their stuff, but you can still play the first edition by the first edition rules which are by-and-large the same and (in the case of the apparently dodgy Battle Royale rules) in some cases better.


That's certainly true...I started using a modified version of the 2nd edition solo rules with a home-brew victory point variant and some additional rules tweaks to play multiplayer because I think it makes the game significantly better (would suggest doing this regardless of whether you have first edition or not). So, I guess saying it's "completely unplayable" is slightly unfair.

However, I'd like the option of using the Apex cards and modifying those mechanics to improve the game's player interaction, and we're also still missing cards from the upgrade/booster that actually replace 1st edition versions of things that would be used regardless of rule-set; that's in addition to still not getting the 20 different cards with updated functionality from here: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1566026/updating-exotic-pre...
 
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Leigh Ryan
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Don't get me wrong, I'm no Herschel apologist. His inability to learn from his past mistakes is staggering and he's just making it worse the quieter he stays.

Still, I backed his second kickstarter (against my better judgement) because I enjoyed the game I received from the first (botched) kickstarter, and whatever happens from here on in I still enjoy that game for what it is, lost potential and all.
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David A
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Faerun wrote:
Hi!

I recently found out about this game but it's impossible to get a hold of. Luckily, I have to travel to the USA soon for work, and found a shop that has the 2nd edition of this game.

However, it also has many expansions (Saurophaganax, stomping grounds, suchomimus, therizinosaurus).

Some questions:
- Are they compatible with the 2nd edition?
- Are they worth it in your opinion?

Thanks a lot!

Hi! Welcome! You'll be happy to know that all of those expansions are fully compatible with the 2nd edition! As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure they were designed with 2nd edition in mind.

I missed all of the Kickstarter opportunities with this game. I was kicking myself after learning I'd missed out, but now I'm glad I missed it. That said, the game itself is fantastic, though you'll probably want to house rule the rules for the final round -- that's the only negative point I have about this game. All the negatives you're reading are coming from the Kickstarter supporters and they are absolutely justified in their anger (I would be livid if I were in their spot as well), but none of their points will have any impact on your game and play.

Now to get to a couple points that were brought up. I feel a need to address them for clarification:


COGGaming wrote:
First, the majority of the Rex statues were either broken upon arrival, or broke soon after, and the designer claims the manufacturer reneged on their agreement and will not be replacing broken figures.

This is completely true. I was one of the lucky ones who hasn't had his statue break (yet), but as soon as I heard of the breaks happening, I "archived" the thing and used a plastic toy dinosaur I had on hand (I'm a paleontology freak). That said, the statue itself really isn't critical to game play. Anything can be used as a First Player marker.

COGGaming wrote:

Second, the box is too small to fit sleeved cards even though he claimed they'd fit fine...the only way to make them fit is to basically mangle the insert to make enough room.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I sleeve my cards and haven't had to mangle anything. Everything (base game plus all expansions) fit perfectly fine. For the record, I use KMC Card Barrier Perfect Size sleeves.

COGGaming wrote:
...the cards are not of the best quality.

I'm not sure what is meant here. This could be a simple case of personal tastes.

COGGaming wrote:
I have serious doubts about the longevity of the central player board: the tape just doesn't seem sturdy to the point where you can almost accidentally fold the board in the completely wrong way.

Personally, I haven't had any issue with my board, but in reading this post, I can see a possibility where this could happen. For me, the odds of that being the case are near zero since I tend to be fairly gentle with my stuff, but if someone is rougher or distracted, I can see how the board might get folded back the wrong way.

Now if we could just get Herschel to Man Up, put on his Big Boy Pants and provide a big, fat Mea Culpa. The results of which won't get people the stuff they are due, but the waters will be less muddy and he'll restore a little bit of his (now terribly tarnished) public image.
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Mark Blasco

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Despite the issue with the kickstarter, that actual game is really great. The quality of the cards is not fantastic, but it's an interesting game with awesome art and some neat mechanics.

I have the first edition, along with most of the upgrade decks, and the cards are not the exact same quality, but they can still work together.

I (and many other people) have found that the battle royale rule is not very great. Instead, I use basically the rules from the first edition, which are the solo rules for the second edition. Add in a boss and it's minions for each player, and just count victory points at the end of the game.

It's a great game, and worth playing. Since each player has their own set of cards to buy from, each time you play your game will feel very different. The T-Res definitely feels more powerful than the Velociraptor, but that doesn't make it better, just a different way to play.
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Tobias Naesborg
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Hi Nick

Buy it! So simple.
I kickstarted and got game and expansions. It's Greeeaaat
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Martin DeOlden
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I am one of the few lucky ones that received everything even the upgrade parts from the last Kickstarter so I have everything.

I love the game and play it mostly solo but it is a fun group game with a few tweaks to the multi player rules. I use the boss fights rules from 1est edition.

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Nick Bos
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Thanks everyone!
I ordered it to my friend's place and he will visit me during the work trip. Life is good
Also managed to snag Pandemic legacy for 34 dollars (95 euro's here in Finland).
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Ben Duerksen
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David A wrote:

COGGaming wrote:

Second, the box is too small to fit sleeved cards even though he claimed they'd fit fine...the only way to make them fit is to basically mangle the insert to make enough room.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I sleeve my cards and haven't had to mangle anything. Everything (base game plus all expansions) fit perfectly fine. For the record, I use KMC Card Barrier Perfect Size sleeves.


I'm using Ultra Pro Deck Protectors, which are pretty tight fitting. Even so, I've had to put the cards into the insert at an angle, and have had to squish the sides of the insert to even make that possible.
 
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Max Jansson
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COGGaming wrote:
Faerun wrote:

COGGaming wrote:

Second, the box is too small to fit sleeved cards even though he claimed they'd fit fine...the only way to make them fit is to basically mangle the insert to make enough room.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I sleeve my cards and haven't had to mangle anything. Everything (base game plus all expansions) fit perfectly fine. For the record, I use KMC Card Barrier Perfect Size sleeves.


I'm using Ultra Pro Deck Protectors, which are pretty tight fitting. Even so, I've had to put the cards into the insert at an angle, and have had to squish the sides of the insert to even make that possible.


I can confirm this. I'm using Ultra pro-matte sleeves, and could not fit then in the box. Had to remove both sides of the insert to fit everything. I have EP and all expansions, there is no way I could fit everything at an angle without it all bending.
 
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David A
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Wow! Glad I went the direction I did then so I didn't have to mutilate anything (I was the one using KMC Perfect Size, not Faerun).
 
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Big Sixer
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The KMC sleeves, are they the in we sleeve type? Like penny sleeves. It sized to the card?
 
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David A
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Bigsixer wrote:
The KMC sleeves, are they the in we sleeve type? Like penny sleeves. It sized to the card?

Yep! They fit the cards like a glove! --> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T3Z72Q8/ref=oh_aui_deta...
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Big Sixer
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The man for the link! So, you get the cards to fit in the box with this sleeves without any mods? Also, when you put the piles out, do they slide all over or do they stay put? Lastly, how well do they shuffle! Thanks for your insight!
 
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David A
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To avoid confusing anything (especially me), I'll just break the questions out individually.
Bigsixer wrote:
So, you get the cards to fit in the box with this sleeves without any mods?
Yes! Absolutely ZERO modifications were needed to the box or the cards or anything. The sleeves are, literally, a perfect fit so the size of the cards are barely altered.

Bigsixer wrote:
Also, when you put the piles out, do they slide all over or do they stay put?
Mine stay put. These sleeves are glossy, but not slick. It's like they got some sort of satin finish grip with a glossy finish....if that makes any sense.

Bigsixer wrote:
Lastly, how well do they shuffle!
I think they shuffle just fine, nice and smooth, no breaks. Full disclosure though: I use the "mash" shuffle as opposed to the more traditional "riffle" shuffle.

Hope that helps!
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Hero Guy
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You can also turn the cards 90 degrees and everything will fit. The only issue you might run into is finding something to use as dividers.

Here's a pic of what I mean.


I put one of the expansion deck boxes in there to show you that you can fit 4 columns on one side and there is plenty of room to fit everything (I have the Exotic Predators edition with everything except the upgrade cards and that promo pack Promethean Wars). As for getting new dividers, you'll need to figure that out for yourself. I was going to trim the foam blocks and use that, but now I'm probably not going to be keeping the game since I probably won't be getting my upgrade cards (and I really dislike proxy cards), so I don't see much point in spending time trying to store an incomplete game.

Edit: Those are FF standard size sleeves.
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Joseph Youren
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Dang! Makes me wish my dog's name wasn't Herschel. No wonder he keeps getting dirty looks from hipsters at the dog park.whistle
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Big Sixer
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So, following Hero Guy's advice I sleeves all of my cards in Dragon Shields and put them in the box like he did. It worked out great, but it sure filled out the space. This is a great solution for me, thanks for the tip.


 
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