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John Reynolds
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Let's say I had a minor failure while trying to get to orbit (so I don't have enough thrust), but I was in sub-orbit. At the end of the year, I land back on earth, with a bunch of rockets still unused. They land safely, and can be re-used?

Additionally, I assume a sample has to be carried at all times by a probe/capsule, it can't just exist on it's own and land, etc.

Last one - Can a probe or rockets ever land back on earth through an atmosphere (where a re-entry outcome is required) or are capsules the only component that can survive?
 
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Matt Watkins
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JohnnyR wrote:
Let's say I had a minor failure while trying to get to orbit (so I don't have enough thrust), but I was in sub-orbit. At the end of the year, I land back on earth, with a bunch of rockets still unused. They land safely, and can be re-used?


Yes, they land safely. Thematically, they're outfitted with parachutes. There is a landing icon in parenthesis for this maneuver, which means that you can test Landing technology if you want to.

JohnnyR wrote:
Additionally, I assume a sample has to be carried at all times by a probe/capsule, it can't just exist on it's own and land, etc.


A sample can land on its own. Thematically, it's a capsule with sample on board, like the one carried by Hayabusa, for example. It doesn't need a probe or capsule. You can land a Juno, collect a sample, attach it to the Juno (assuming you have Rendezvous) and use the Juno to lift the sample into orbit.

JohnnyR wrote:
Last one - Can a probe or rockets ever land back on earth through an atmosphere (and a re-entry outcome is required) or just Capsules?


There's a re-entry (cloud) icon, so you have to test re-entry. Testing re-entry on a component that doesn't have re-entry capability is an automatic destruction of the component. It's not just the atmosphere that's the problem (which is why you can land safely from suborbital flight without re-entry capability), it's that orbital speed is something like 28,000 kph (~17,000 mph), and using an atmosphere to slow down from that speed requires special shapes and heat shielding.
 
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John Reynolds
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Matt_W wrote:
JohnnyR wrote:
Let's say I had a minor failure while trying to get to orbit (so I don't have enough thrust), but I was in sub-orbit. At the end of the year, I land back on earth, with a bunch of rockets still unused. They land safely, and can be re-used?


Yes, they land safely. Thematically, they're outfitted with parachutes. There is a landing icon in parenthesis for this maneuver, which means that you can test Landing technology if you want to.

JohnnyR wrote:
Additionally, I assume a sample has to be carried at all times by a probe/capsule, it can't just exist on it's own and land, etc.


A sample can land on its own. Thematically, it's a capsule with sample on board, like the one carried by Hayabusa, for example. It doesn't need a probe or capsule. You can land a Juno, collect a sample, attach it to the Juno (assuming you have Rendezvous) and use the Juno to lift the sample into orbit.

JohnnyR wrote:
Last one - Can a probe or rockets ever land back on earth through an atmosphere (and a re-entry outcome is required) or just Capsules?


There's a re-entry (cloud) icon, so you have to test re-entry. Testing re-entry on a component that doesn't have re-entry capability is an automatic destruction of the component. It's not just the atmosphere that's the problem (which is why you can land safely from suborbital flight without re-entry capability), it's that orbital speed is something like 28,000 kph (~17,000 mph), and using an atmosphere to slow down from that speed requires special shapes and heat shielding.


Wow, Thank you so much for the quick reply!

For #2, I'm still unsure, as the rulebook has this to say

All solid bodies (planets, moons, and asteroids) permit a spacecraft to collect samples, if the spacecraft has an undamaged probe, an undamaged capsule, or a healthy astronaut.

So it sounds like you do need a probe at least to collect a sample.

I also assumed the sample would need to stay with a probe/capsule (or if transferred, another probe/capsule), but perhaps this part is not correct, and a sample can be, via rendezvous, transferred to just a juno or something.

To sum up - It sounds like I need a probe/capsule to retrieve a sample, and a capsule capable of re-entry to return said sample to earth. In between collection/landing, the sample can be carried by just a rocket through space?

I was essentially attempting to land a sample by itself on earth, from orbit, which sounds like it wouldn't be possible given it would be destroyed upon re-entry.

Does this sound right?

I'm so happy I found this game, it's pretty incredible.
 
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Jordan Booth
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A spacecraft may be made up of any combination of components as long as all astronauts have seats in capsules. So, yes, a sample can be the sole component of a spacecraft, it does not need a capsule, even to land.

Only capsules must face re-entry tests when facing a re-entry hazard, all other components do not even incur a check.
rulebook p. 25 wrote:
All other components are unaffected by atmospheric entry.

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John Reynolds
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Born-of-Ashes wrote:
A spacecraft may be made up of any combination of components as long as all astronauts have seats in capsules. So, yes, a sample can be the sole component of a spacecraft, it does not need a capsule, even to land.

Only capsules must face re-entry tests when facing a re-entry hazard, all other components do not even incur a check.
rulebook p. 25 wrote:
All other components are unaffected by atmospheric entry.



Ah-hah! Thank you. I think I got it now
 
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Larry L
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Oops, already answered.
 
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Jakub Glazik
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JohnnyR wrote:
All solid bodies (planets, moons, and asteroids) permit a spacecraft to collect samples, if the spacecraft has an undamaged probe, an undamaged capsule, or a healthy astronaut.

So it sounds like you do need a probe at least to collect a sample.
I think this little question was lost.

To collect – you are right, you need a probe. But you were asking about carrying and for this task, as Jordan answered, probe is not needed. But remember that you have to have Randezvous technology to leave probe on planet and carry only sample.
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Thomas Rahlf
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Burg auf Fehmarn
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Leaving earth versus liftoff! A remake?
I have played the "liftoff!" from Task Force Games for several times and want to ask for difference between the two games. It is possibile to compare these games and which game seems to be the better one.

Thomas Rahlf
 
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Roger BW
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I played "Liftoff!" back in the day… it's been a while but I'll see if I can remember.

In LE (with or without OP):

You have a freer hand in designing your own missions - a single mission can last multiple years and achieve multiple objectives. Indeed, you have to design your own rocket stacks and mission plans (unless you use my Book of Missions, but designing is definitely part of the fun).

The ground research subsumes both the ability to build the thing and the debugging you can do on the ground. For greater reliability you can have to fly actual hardware. (But you can get to 100% reliability.) In the multiplayer game, the tradeoff is between taking extra time/money to test hardware exhaustively, or beating the opposition.

There's a negative feedback effect rather than Liftoff's positive feedback: when you achieve a mission goal, the other agencies get a budget boost. I found playing Liftoff that a high-risk strategy, e.g. making the minishuttle my first launch, would either fail completely or let me walk away with the game.

Mission goals vary per game. So does what you'll find when you land on the Moon, and in other places.

There are bigger missions - manned and unmanned landings beyond the earth-moon system.

For my money, LE is a more enjoyable game. Not for everyone - you do need to do those calculations, though they're not too

Some more comments here: Liftoff compared to Leaving Earth?
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