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Twilight Struggle» Forums » Rules

Subject: redscare vs vietnam revolt headline rss

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ray donovan
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In this situation, is vietnam revolt supposed to be in effect?
Or only with 1 op original cards?
I had a game on steam and my opponment was able to place 2 influence in SEA with a 1op card. I think this is because redscare occur 1st.
 
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Vietnam revolts puts two influence in Vietnam.

Red scare reduces the ops value of a card by one. A 1 op card would allow you to place one influence because you cannot reduce it below one, and then Vietnam would allow play of an additional op in Southeast Asia for a total of 2.
 
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Josh Avery
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That's right. Just to develop further: Vietnam Revolts automatically places 2 as an event. It isn't being played for ops on the headline, so Red Scare has no effect on it when it's headlined. But anytime the person who headlined Vietnam Revolts uses a card with all of its ops in SEA, he'll get the full value of the card, instead of losing 1 to the Red Scare. In those cases, the +1 of the Revolts effect and the -1 of the Red Scare effect simply will cancel each other out.
 
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Ben Kyo
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exegesis wrote:
But anytime the person who headlined Vietnam Revolts uses a card with all of its ops in SEA, he'll get the full value of the card, instead of losing 1 to the Red Scare. In those cases, the +1 of the Revolts effect and the -1 of the Red Scare effect simply will cancel each other out.

This is missing the point, correctly made by leroy43, that a 1 OP card can actually net 2 OPs in SE Asia. This is not like Containment/Brehznev vs Red Scare/Purge, because of the timing of the bonus OP.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't check the wording of Vietnam Revolts. You don't get "a bonus OP", you "add one operations point to any card", which is a significant difference that skirts timing issues. I agree that the aggregate rule applies and you only get 1 OP for a 1 OP card played into SE Asia when Red Scare and Vietnam Revolts are in effect.
 
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Josh Avery
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Ok, I assumed that this thread below, which said that the order didn't matter, had been confirmed by the designers.

See here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/745401/red-purge-vs-vietnam...

So it turns out that this is wrong after all?
 
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Josh Avery
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Riku also confirmed the 1 op interpretation here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1136951/red-scarepurge-and-...

It was a bug on Vassal; maybe Steam is misplaying it?
 
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Josh Avery
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Right. I didn't know that Steam was bugged, but I am glad to know of it!
 
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exegesis wrote:
Ok, I assumed that this thread below, which said that the order didn't matter, had been confirmed by the designers.

See here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/745401/red-purge-vs-vietnam...

So it turns out that this is wrong after all?




I already reported this but. you guys can help me to reply this thread to support it.

Thanks!
 
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Ben Kyo
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I also posted a similar thread on the Playdek forums.

One thing that interests me is that a follow-up comment in one of the linked threads is actually untrue:
alerce wrote:
The ruled answer is: you first aggregate all effects, after that you put the limits -minimum or maximum- from Containment or Red Scare/Purge.


If you did that, then a 3 OP card played into SE Asia while Brehznev and Vietnam Revolts are in effect would only net 4 OPs. However, the consensus seems to be that it would actually get you 5 OPs.

So, we're really applying all modifiers in aggregate, but fudging it a bit to avoid hitting minimum/maximum limits if possible.

So, how do you program this? Something like:

Step 1) Check if any part of the modifiers is restricted by a minimum/maximum (if not, simply apply in aggregate)
Step 2) Sort out an "order" of application of modifiers that applies as many modifiers as possible
Step 3) Apply all modifiers in order, i.e., not in aggregate, applying min/max limits during the process, not at the end.

It does seem that the "apply in aggregate" rule cannot coexist with a mix of positive modifiers, some of which are restricted by "to a maximum of 4", when programming.
 
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