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Saipan & Tinian: Island War Series, Volume I» Forums » General

Subject: Availability? rss

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Maurice Fitzgerald
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Allen
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Anyone know when this will be back in stock? It says OOS right now, so wanted to check. Thanks!
 
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Randy Lein
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Wisconsin
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Maurice,

This has been too long coming but I am going to make it a priority to get the counters reprinted once the snow starts falling here in Wisconsin. Best guess is shortly into 2017. And maybe Guam can finally reach 250 CPOs and get slotted for production. This is a great series that does full justice to the WWII Pacific Theater land battles and I'm very mystified as to why there isn't more pre-order interest in Guam.

Randy Lein - LEGION WARGAMES
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Mike Taylor
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Here's hoping for a blizzard!
 
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Maurice Fitzgerald
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Allen
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Maybe not enough notice for Guam out there? Not sure why not, I'm definitely interested in anything Marine Corps related.

Here's hoping for some snow pretty quick. Failing that, maybe someone with really bad dandruff passes by and fools you. lol
 
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Tom Cundiff
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St. Bernice
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I've read and re-read the rules to this game several times since I purchased it, since its first release. I suspicion the reason there's little enthusiasm is the lack of supporting published material. This game system isn't difficult, but it does require some idea written for the players to figure out how best to set up defensive and offensive strategies. Also, there are lots of counters with funky NATO symbology. Players know the obvious symbols, but these counters have things that players have no knowledge of and know not how best to use them when they have special abilities. Further there seems to be no reason to include invasion craft in the design. Such things could have easily been abstracted such as has been seen in Fortress Europa. There's alot going on in this game causing players to simply scratch their head and ask themselves this question, "what?" A player who is puzzled about what to do isn't likely to play the game much. Follow on games to the system will then linger for lack of player interest.

I think it would help this series to have someone, a player, or a designer, write a tactical advice article and publish it.
 
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Mike Taylor
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Tom,

Unit Symbology: The game does come with a chart that explains the various unit symbols, so if you find one you are not familiar with then you just need to refer to the chart. The rules also explain the special capabilities that some of the units have, such as engineers and armor.

Invasion Craft: Amphibious landing craft are included in the game because they have an important role in the system, and are critical to the US player when assaulting an opposed beach. This part of the system cannot be abstracted out. Other landing craft have been abstracted (LCM, etc.), and that is explained in the rules.

Tactics: I have responded many times in both CSW and BGG regarding tactics, and have done my best to provide answers to player questions along those lines. The game has also been reviewed and I can recall at least one magazine article comparing it to other games on the same subject. And I agree that the game system is easy to learn, which means you can spend far more time and energy coming up with different approaches and tactics. And there are many. To write an article about game tactics would just be my approach to it, and not necessarily the one and only way to play each side. How many people feel that figuring out the tactics is part of the game and may add to the replay value? To have all the answers given to you will only leave you going through the motions to get to the end of the game. That may be fine for a historical replay, but it certainly takes most of the "game" and competition factor out of it.

In my opinion the biggest hurdle is the subject itself. Many people have the opinion that you can't make a two player game on a Pacific War island battle, when one side is the Japanese player, and therefore they generally avoid and not even consider buying or playing such a game. Its not the only reason, but for many it is enough to keep them away.

And just looking at WW2 players, how many games about island battles are on your shelf? I would guess very few. Crete maybe? Possibly Sea Lion. There is a huge gap there when compared to all the land based, conventional front line combat, and with that a general lack of gaming experience in this totally different form of warfare.

I understand the apprehension, and so I tried to come up with a system that allows the Japanese player to have some meaningful impact in the game. I believe the system does this very well, but to what degree is ultimately up to the players to decide.

But the good news is that publishers are still making some games. ATO made their two game issue on Peleliu and Wake, Compass made Mike Nagel's Attu, and Adam Starkweather plans on making a Mariana Campaign series. Suddenly we could have three Tinian, Saipan and Guam games available, as well as two Attu games. Not bad for such a neglected set of subjects.
 
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Tom Cundiff
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I disagree about writing an article. It isn't a matter of giving away all the secrets. Tactical articles have appeared in the past for many games. I never felt they provided the one and only, or even the best approach ...

But they did provide a starting point, which I feel is necessary when a new game system is created. A beginning primer would be helpful.

I don't agree about the landing craft concept. It could have been done as a simple "yes" or "No" die roll disrupting, destroying, or permitting a unit to land unopposed. Simple with no need for all that amphibious stuff, which I think needlessly complicates the system.

 
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Maurice Fitzgerald
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I wish there were more Pacific island campaign games, as you said there are not enough Mike. Anything Marine Corps based, I'm all over.
 
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Mike Taylor
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The landing craft have other functions as well. They may be used on land to provide greater mobility and additional defense. The limited number and possible high loss rate means you will need to keep track of them for subsequent landings. For me the counters work the best for Amtracs and DUKWs.

In my current game on Peleliu they are also used for casualty evacuation. In that game you must keep a certain number of Amtracs stacked with a beachhead(s). If you don't then the replacement rate is changed, and the US player will have to take more casualties before a loss generates a replacement point. Just stacked with a beachhead; you are not running Amtracs back and forth or anything like that. Pretty simple rule, but for the US player it makes a huge difference in his replacement rate.

Landing craft have been abstracted because they have no other function other than landing. Aircraft and ships have also been abstracted as they only provide support. So a lot has been trimmed out of the system already, but I feel that Amtracs need to be represented as a unit. This is a core part of the system and I cannot see making any major changes along that line.
 
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Mike Taylor
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Maurice,

Thanks very much for the interest in the games! With the exception of Attu/Kiska all my games involve the Marines!

We can use this system to handle many different battles, including those that have never been done before. Other than the more familiar battles like Iwo, Okinawa, and Leyte, there are battles on New Guinea and in the Solomons. Hopefully Guam and Attu/Kiska make it to the printer someday.

My Atoll series covers the much smaller battles at the company/platoon level, and currently there are 7 games grouped into three game sets (Kwajalein, Eniwetok, and the Gilberts). Of those titles only the Tarawa battle has been done (at least as far as I know). And although Wake Island is a different system the island fight itself will use the Atoll rules.

Mike Rinella is looking at doing Hong Kong Island, using his Ie Shima system. My Hong Kong game covers the mainland as well as the island.

We are experiencing a good run of Pacific games and I hope the trend continues.


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Maurice Fitzgerald
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Excellent to hear Mike! As soon as it's available I'm grabbing S&T and have Guam on CPO. Definitely interested to know more about the Atoll series too, smaller battles always feel much more personal. Great to see more Pacific titles getting done!
 
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