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Terra Mystica» Forums » General

Subject: Largest area bonus in 2-p games rss

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Ken Thibodeau
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I guess the largest area earns his owner 18 vps and the other player automatically gets 12, but is there a better way to handle that? It feels like almost useless vps, battling only for a net 6 vps.



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Grant
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fardoche wrote:
I guess the largest area earns his owner 18 vps and the other player automatically gets 12, but is there a better way to handle that? It feels like almost useless vps, battling only for a net 6 vps.




If you want to discuss other ways to handle it you should post in variants.
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Dániel Lányi
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fardoche wrote:
I guess the largest area earns his owner 18 vps and the other player automatically gets 12, but is there a better way to handle that? It feels like almost useless vps, battling only for a net 6 vps.




I've seen two variants proposed

One basically worked with bunch of dummy players, let's say dummy1 had 14 areas, dummy2 had 12, dummy3 had 10. Something like that, and during scoring you act like they're there. The problem with this I think is you don't actually race with your opponent, but preset numbers, so it doesn't give you interaction.

The other is the one I actually played, and it felt like it's working great. First place gets 18 but second place gets 9 (just like if there was a dummy player equaling the second player). Why not 9 and 0 ? Because you might want to compare scores to games with 3+ players.
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Steinar Nerhus
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I have found that 2p can often be very tight, so 6vp is enough to fight about. However we have used some dummy player at e.g. 12 buildings so that if we want to get 12 points on nettwork we have to actually connect and get more than 12.

Gaining 6vp on your opponent is almost like 12 vp, because if you can go from being number two to number one it means your opponent get 6 less points, and you get 6 more points. Example: Say you have 13 buildings and he as 14, and he is at 150 and you at 140 points after adding nettwork and cults. If you somehow were able to get to 15 buildings that would change to you at 146 and he at 144. What I am trying to say is that 6vp is more swingy than it sounds, and increasing it leads to even greater swings.
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Robert
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In 2p, TM changes quite a bit from "beat the others by getting a lot of VP" to "beat that other player by getting more VP than he/she has". In a 4p game it's stupid to do something which costs you 2VP but costs another player 5VP, unless your position to the remaining players is already clear. In 2p it always makes perfect sense. Rather beat them 115 to 112 than lose with 135 to 138. It's the delta VP which wins or loses the game.

With this in mind, the effect on VP delta between 1st and 2nd network position isn't just 6VP - it's 12 VP. You gain 6 VP, while the other player loses 6.

A similar though slightly modified thought applies to cults: cult bonuses aside, cult scoring only make a difference if -in a 2p game- one player wins three or all cults. Or if a player fails to get even one step in a cult and thus gets 0VP instead of the otherwise guaranteed 4VP.

As mentioned in the replies above, there are variants which assume dummy players achieving X hexes on network and/or Y steps on cults, so that it's not sufficient to best your opponent, but also reach a certain quality. I never felt the need to do that for network, but for cults it makes the game a bit more interesting since there's an incentive to do something on a cult beyond taking TW5, the "+1 step in each cult" town tile.
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Ken Thibodeau
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grant5 wrote:
fardoche wrote:
I guess the largest area earns his owner 18 vps and the other player automatically gets 12, but is there a better way to handle that? It feels like almost useless vps, battling only for a net 6 vps.




If you want to discuss other ways to handle it you should post in variants.


Yeah, I thought about that (or even posting in the rules subforum) but since I didn't propose a variant myself, I went with the general forum.
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Ken Thibodeau
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Thanks for the replies. I like the one with preset areas (14, 12 and 10) since it mimicks the cult tracks with dummies on 3 and 5, which works great with us. It gives targets to shoot for.

Next step is toying with the on-map competition itself. We use the blocked right side but I will try to incorporate a 3rd and/or 4th faction somehow. If I manage to find a satisfying variant, I will post it in the variant section.
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Dániel Lányi
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DocCool wrote:


A similar though slightly modified thought applies to cults: cult bonuses aside, cult scoring only make a difference if -in a 2p game- one player wins three or all cults. Or if a player fails to get even one step in a cult and thus gets 0VP instead of the otherwise guaranteed 4VP.

As mentioned in the replies above, there are variants which assume dummy players achieving X hexes on network and/or Y steps on cults, so that it's not sufficient to best your opponent, but also reach a certain quality. I never felt the need to do that for network, but for cults it makes the game a bit more interesting since there's an incentive to do something on a cult beyond taking TW5, the "+1 step in each cult" town tile.


I second that, we play the cult track with dummies in two player, and I even think you should put dummies on the third step, when playing with three players. I just wouldn't like to see a situation where just one step is worth any points.
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Lucas Smith
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DocCool wrote:
In 2p, TM every game changes quite a bit from "beat the others by getting a lot of VP" to "beat that other player by getting more VP than he/she has". In a 4p game it's stupid to do something which costs you 2VP but costs another player 5VP, unless your position to the remaining players is already clear. In 2p it always makes perfect sense. Rather beat them 115 to 112 than lose with 135 to 138. It's the delta VP which wins or loses the game.

With this in mind, the effect on VP delta between 1st and 2nd network position isn't just 6VP - it's 12 VP. You gain 6 VP, while the other player loses 6.
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