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Mottainai» Forums » Rules

Subject: A couple of quick rule and random questions rss

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Ben Stanley
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I'm a fan of Glory to Rome, but like the simpler set up and ideas of Mottainai. We tried our first game today, and weren't sure we were doing it all right, though. Help us out!

1. There seemed to be a real scarcity of cards on the floor (playing with three). Is that common? Is the only way to get more cards onto the floor through discarding of old tasks (and maybe an item's effect)?

2. The third player seemed to start with an unfair advantage. During set up the original tasks were played face down, so we assumed that the first player could only take her own action and had to simply pray (or do nothing?) for the actions of the other players. The second player got to take the actions of the first player and his own. But the third player got to take three actions! How is the VERY FIRST ROUND supposed to play out when some players have face down task cards from the set up?

3. What is the printing error on some of the fan cards?

Thanks in advance.
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1. Working as intended.
2. This is compensation for first mover advantage. The first player does only take their own action and no one else's. If, as first player, you feel there is nothing you can do that will benefit you more than others, you can always choose to simply Pray as your action, deferring the important choice to player 2. As first player, though, you do get first pick from the floor, which as you noted before, can be somewhat sparse.
3. I believe the issue was that the back of the black Fan card had an imperfection that made it possible to identify from the top of the deck.
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Gillum the Stoor
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Just to be clear: because the other players do not yet have any tasks, the first player in the first turn has only the one action for his own task (or prayer).

It is generally the case that, if an opponent has no task, you gain no actions for it - not even prayer.

Noon step #1 on page 10: "If an opponent has no task, skip that player."

The only general case in which you get a prayer action without as task is when you yourself do not play a task in your turn.

Noon step #2 on page 10: "If you have no task, take one Prayer action instead."
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Kevin B. Smith
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Blue Steel wrote:
1. There seemed to be a real scarcity of cards on the floor (playing with three). Is that common?

I have only played with 2. In some games, the floor is empty a lot. In others, the floor is overflowing. It depends on whether works are built that add to, or remove from, the floor. Plus how many monk or potter actions players choose to use. I would guess the floor would tend to be emptier with 3 players.

Quote:
Is the only way to get more cards onto the floor through discarding of old tasks (and maybe an item's effect)?

I think so.

Quote:
2. The third player seemed to start with an unfair advantage.

In the first round, the first player will get one action (her own task). The second player will get 2 (his plus that of the first player). The third player will get 3. That's assuming everybody plays a task card rather than just praying without placing a task. I think that's generally a reasonable assumption for the first round.

However, the game ends IMMEDIATELY when someone triggers it. That makes it highly likely that the third player will get one less turn than the first player. The second player also has a 50/50 chance of getting one less turn.

I haven't played enough to decide whether those balance each other out, but I'm inclined to trust the designer and playtesters.

Quote:
3. What is the printing error on some of the fan cards?

As mentioned, some had marked backs. They packed replacements in all the boxes, because they couldn't tell which ones had the defect and which didn't.
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Ben Stanley
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Thanks, guys. I think we did get that one rule wrong and allowed players to pray for other player who had no task.
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Simon Maynard
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The floor is no more or less likely to be empty with three players in my experience. Some games, the floor just gets drained but others there can be plenty of cards there for most of the game. It just depends on the way the game plays out and that's one of the things I like most about this game; every game is quite different from the last.
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Tucker Taylor
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Fried Egg wrote:
The floor is no more or less likely to be empty with three players in my experience.

Same. It is, however, much more likely to be empty in Mottainai than in Glory to Rome.
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David Forby
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tankbard wrote:
1. Working as intended.
2. This is compensation for first mover advantage. The first player does only take their own action and no one else's. If, as first player, you feel there is nothing you can do that will benefit you more than others, you can always choose to simply Pray as your action, deferring the important choice to player 2. As first player, though, you do get first pick from the floor, which as you noted before, can be somewhat sparse.
3. I believe the issue was that the back of the black Fan card had an imperfection that made it possible to identify from the top of the deck.


But there really isn't anything on the floor until you discard the blank task. So you really only have 1 choice, the card that you discard as your old task that starts face down. By your words, I think that I am missing something on the set up. You seem to imply that there are many cards on the floor at the beginning of the game.

I did a run through systematically of a mock game with 2 players. Start of the game: Give everyone 5 cards, place 1 card face down as your previous task.

Player 1: Check for 5 cards (already there, THEN discard your old task. In this case it was the face down card that was place there to start the game. THEN choose your task from your hand. Result: 1 card on the Floor and if you take it through a task that either moves it to your work bench or as a Helper then it the floor is empty. Next player.

Player 2: Check for 5 cards, discard the "Previous Task", which again is the face down card. Then perform the opponent's task that they just took. If it deals with the Floor then it also only moves the one card on the floor to be either a Helper or Work Bench, then you do your task.

Player 3: Check for 5 cards, discard the "Previous Task", which again is the face down card. Then perform you opponents tasks, taking your own card from the set up.

The Floor is now empty. Back to the first player's Turn, The floor is empty until you discard your task before you choose your new one.

I this how i see the game going. Am I missing something?
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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Matrix4b wrote:
I this how i see the game going. Am I missing something?

I think so. To choose who goes first, each player draws a card *and puts it on the floor*.
 
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David Forby
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Ah, that would make more sense. I thought that they drew a card and "Returned" it, meaning it is now at the bottom of the deck.
 
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