$30.00
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Dungeon Fighter» Forums » Rules

Subject: Damage from a monster that goes down? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
M P
Germany
flag msg tools
mb
Hey there

if I miss my shot but nonetheless kill the monster (i.e. by using a lured enemy), do I get the damage?

We had different opinions in our group


A: if my attack (= missed shot + bonus like lured) is enough to kill, there is no damage for me, because I hit, the monster is dead and it can't strike back


B: if you miss but can harm the monster anyway, both the monster AND you get damage, because the both sides' requirements for taking damage are fulfilled. It happens simultaneously.



What do you say?

Is there a chronological order in actions (A) or is it just a check if certain conditions are given and then work out all consequences synchronistically (B)?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leonardo Gomes
Brazil
flag msg tools
By the wording of the rules alone I would say (B), but from a more logical perspective (A) makes more sense to me. In my group we play like in (A).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M P
Germany
flag msg tools
mb
yes, as you say, for me (A) is the more logical way and it fits better thematically

but unfortunately I couldn't convince the group


I was hoping there might be a statement from the developer or something
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessandro Pra'
Italy
flag msg tools
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
manpru wrote:
A: if my attack (= missed shot + bonus like lured) is enough to kill, there is no damage for me, because I hit, the monster is dead and it can't strike back

There is one fallacy in your reasoning, i.e. in your example you actually don't hit. You have missed, but you also happen to deal damage to the monster thanks to the effect of some ability/item/whatever. Unless you use something that explicitly tells you otherwise (e.g. a shield), when you miss you always take damage. In a situation like the one you described above, it is not the monster who has no chance to strike back to you, it is you who get the chance to strike back to it!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M P
Germany
flag msg tools
mb
yes, I see the point.

The problem I have is that a killed unit (no matter if it's me or, like in your example, an enemy) should logically not be able strike back.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Dunford
Canada
Kemptville
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the timing goes:
- 1 - Throw die to attack;
- 2 - You determine that the throw Missed (which could be on a "1" against a certain monster (like "Fat Demon"), for instance);
- 3 - You have an opportunity to use abilities that add to the damage despite missing (e.g. Voodoo Doll duplicates/redirects damage; Lady Mary throws a charmed monster; you use another ability to add damage; etc) and/or to reduce the damage coming your way (e.g. one-time-use shield; Re-roll; Cloak of Invisibility; etc).
- 4 - Remaining net damage is dealt to each of you and the monster (and all other heroes, in the case of "miss hits everyone in the party" type monsters), which might destroy either or both of you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M P
Germany
flag msg tools
mb
it's still strange, because you die at #3 but still cause damage at #4


but ok, thanks guys
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessandro Pra'
Italy
flag msg tools
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Thematically, also keep in mind that all of this happens in a split second! All is happening almost at the same time, in the dungeon.. the Hero knows is going to faint, but with his last forces is capable to make one more move.
In conclusion, this kind of discussion is always fascinating, but given the intrinsic silliness of Dungeon Fighter, we may be putting too much thought into this
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Dunford
Canada
Kemptville
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
manpru wrote:
it's still strange, because you die at #3 but still cause damage at #4


but ok, thanks guys


If you die (aka "get knocked out") at #3, you would not cause damage at #4.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M P
Germany
flag msg tools
mb
ah, ok, so you do prefer the chronological solution, like (A) in post #1, you just see the monster's action as first in order
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Dunford
Canada
Kemptville
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
manpru wrote:
ah, ok, so you do prefer the chronological solution, like (A) in post #1, you just see the monster's action as first in order


Yes. I think that when you establish that you "miss", you can choose to do something that deals further damage (like toss a Voodoo Doll or charmed Cute Bear at it or whatever), then all the things that trigger on a miss (including taking damage from the monster) happen after that - assuming you survived the damage dealt by the monster upon the miss.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M P
Germany
flag msg tools
mb
I think that's a good way to handle the rules.


But there is also the passage in the rules where it says that you can add the damage of a lured monster to your own attack. At any time.

That's a little contradictional to this way of interpreting the rules.



I guess the rules just don't give a totally clear way of handling this and everyone has to find a way to make peace with these situations.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessandro Pra'
Italy
flag msg tools
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Guys, I work for Horrible Games so take this as a sort of "official answer": what I wrote in my previous message (and I'm going to recap it again here below) is the correct interpretation of the rules, how they are meant to be.

This is how it works:

- Yes, if you miss, unless otherwise specified on e.g. a shield card, you always take damage
- Yes, the above is true even if you are somehow able to strike back at the monster (e.g. with a voodoo doll, or one of Lady Mary's charmed monsters) and you deal it enough damage to take it down. You still receive the damage.
- Yes, with Lady Mary you can discard a charmed monster to deal its damage to the monster at any time, even if you missed.

If you prefer a step-by-step sequence, how about this one:
- Fight, check if you hit or miss
- If you hit, deal damage to the monster. Easy peasy. Next player.
- If you miss, you are going to take damage. Before that happens, you have the chance to use items, discard charmed monsters, etcetera. Calculate how much damage you deal to the monster, and the total damage you take from it.
- Actually deal all the damage at the same time to both hero and monster.

With that said, you're always free to house rule the game to make it work the way you like it to work, of course! I just wanted to make the "official" version as clear as possible.

I hope this clears all your doubts. I also want to thank you for these comments, there is definitely something we can do better with this part of the rules, and we will consider preparing a revised version of the rulebook next time we will reprint the game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Dunford
Canada
Kemptville
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Alessandro, I knew you were from Horrible Games and were giving an official ruling. I was just trying to help explain the ruling (e.g. why the timing works that way). That said, I'm surprised there is a window to use abilities after knowing you're going to take lethal damage (e.g. throw a charmed monster)... but I guess it makes sense since it's the same window in which you would have time to use a Cloak of Invisibility or one-time-use Shield, etc).

I'll fix my posts above to reflect the official ruling so as not to add to the confusion for anyone who might find this thread in the future.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M P
Germany
flag msg tools
mb
thanks a lot
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessandro Pra'
Italy
flag msg tools
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
iNano78 wrote:
I guess it makes sense since it's the same window in which you would have time to use a Cloak of Invisibility or one-time-use Shield, etc).

Exactly.

Thanks again for contributing to the discussion, I just wanted to make sure the "official" version was clear, but each and every constructive and meaningful input such as yours is always welcome, don't worry!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.