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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Meta Challenge - James T Kirk rss

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Justin Hare
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Meta challenge time again.

Kirk is THE guy in Star Trek. He doesn't see the table enough. What are your strategies for fielding him. Any version goes.

Try to keep it within the 50/3 rules. Ship pure encouraged but not necessary.


Here's the first swing with the Crew Kirk8. A ship that should be very aggravating to kill.
Enterprise NX-01 (16)
James T. Kirk (5)
Beverly Crusher (3)
Sakonna (3)
Worf (5)
Enhanced Hull Plating (0)
Type 8 Phaser Array (0)
Upgraded Phasers (1)
Total (33)

Fleet total: 33

Generated by Space Dock for Android
http://spacedockapp.org

For TOS Kirk, I like Federation Task Force for one of the Elite Talents.
 
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David Griffin
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I know you can come up with a good build for some previous Kirk's but I'm a fan of simple builds and the new Kirk 9 (place BS token and then you can use it for BS or you can reroll 2 attack or 2 defense dice) is a lot easier to use. He goes well on any ship at all really, even if it does not have battlestations.

And the new Enterprise A is a pretty nice ship with phaser upgrades, though as much of a powerhouse as you can build this way, attacks that disable a bunch of cards can be hard on such a ship in a way a Prometheus would ignore.
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Justin Hare
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The goal isn't necessarily to make the most powerful ship, but to get people thinking about cards they normally wouldn't.

So go Kirk by Kirk

TOS Kirk: Use FTF to give 3 ships TL for one action. As a 3SP throwaway, that is a good upgrade.

Crew Kirk: Worf is a great defensive crew, but most people have trouble justifying him due to action economy. At only 4SP (instead of 5), getting re-enabled automatically, and able to be used multiple times a turn, he is a good investment. Though at 6SP including Crusher.

BS Kirk and Admiral Kirk are just sort of bacon cards. They can be applied anywhere and will do well enough.
 
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John Victor
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I used a version of Mirror Kirk on the ISS Enterprise posted on here that was able to pull a 10ish dice alpha strike (depending on the exact build). And then pull a 6 or 7 dice second attack. Both with Target Lock quality (the alpha strike also with BS quality).
 
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Sodoff Baldrick
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I have always been a fan of TOS Kirk. Double Cheat Death is classic or 3 in the Fleet Captain days laugh, Cheat Death and Needs of the Many is fun. Cheat Death and Sacrifice isn't bad. My personal favorite is Cheat Death and Attack Pattern Omega. It doesn't save you anything but it is hilarious when your opponent doesn't see that Warp Core Breach coming.

Admiral Kirk is ok. I would take him over Ross and he can be useful at times.

Kirk 8 from the Bounty is pretty cool if you have a disable heavy build, especially if your venue is still using Fleet Captains. As Church14 pointed out that Kirk and Worf are an interesting combo. Combine him with Chekov from the refit, either of the Scotty cards that removes and Aux. Lots of possibilities there. Though Tim Waters could be just as useful, but Kirk does give the discount.

As more copies of Kirk find there way into player hands I thin Kirk 9 from the Ent-A will become very popular. Being able to reroll on defense as well as attack is huge. Even with TL I usually find on average I am only rerolling 2-3 dice to begin with, so Kirk is great in that respect too. Plus he can reroll against cloaked ships. The standard Picard 9 BS & TL doesn't work so well against cloakers. Ent-A Kirk will be good on a souped up Hathaway or on just about anything with 7 of 9 from the Flyer.
 
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Thomas Plummer
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I like Mirror Kirk on the Regent with enough cheap upgrades and intendant's orders to get the bonus twice in 3 rounds.
 
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Justin Hare
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Enterprise NX-01 (16)
James T. Kirk (6)
Sacrifice (3)
Enhanced Hull Plating (0)
Antimatter Mines (5)
Total (30)

Fleet total: 30

Generated by Space Dock for Android
http://spacedockapp.org

Do a come about when going into combat and drop AM with 2 auto-crits. Combine with a Picard9 (or anything else that shoots before Kirk) to wear dow shields before dropping the mines.
 
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Brian Johnsen
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I don't think you can auto-crit the mines.

Tournament Rules wrote:
41. Mines are considered a special attack even if dropped on an opponent’s ship. Attacks with Mines may not be modified by any card text that affects attacks.

It all depends on whether choosing the results of 2 dice count as modifying an attack.
 
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Dave C
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MormegilND wrote:
I don't think you can auto-crit the mines.

Tournament Rules wrote:
41. Mines are considered a special attack even if dropped on an opponent’s ship. Attacks with Mines may not be modified by any card text that affects attacks.

It all depends on whether choosing the results of 2 dice count as modifying an attack.

For reference:
STAW Rulebook, pg 12, Combat Phase wrote:
...players resolve the following combat steps in order:
1) Declare Target
2) Roll Attack Dice
3) Modify Attack Dice
4) Roll Defense Dice
...

Sacrifice wrote:
Before rolling the dice during an attack or defense, you may discard this Upgrade and disable your Captain in order to choose the results of two dice. These dice cannot be re-rolled for the remained of this attack.

My gut reaction is to say that the Tournament Rules' "may not be modified by any card text that affects attacks" means that you cannot use Sacrifice to set two dice to crits.

That being said, Sacrifice also clearly takes place prior to the "Modify Attack Dice" step, and you are by definition not modifying dice that have been rolled, but choosing the result prior to rolling. So there's definitely an argument that can be made in favor of Sacrifice being usable in this case.

Sounds like another question for WORF...
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Sodoff Baldrick
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22 Hathaway
06 Kirk (Enterprise-A)
03 Valaris
03 Sakonna
00 Type 8 Phasers
01 Upgraded Phasers
05 Multi Adaptive Shields

40 total

You will probably be doing green maneuvers anyway to get rid of the Aux so why not get a free evade too boot. So each turn you can get BS, BS, Evade and 2 rerolls. It's not going to be your main ship but a nice harasser that cannot be ignored. Plus at 40 points there is room for exteas if you want like Systems Upgrade or Cheat Death.
 
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Derek Latimer
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Mr S Baldrick wrote:
22 Hathaway
06 Kirk (Enterprise-A)
03 Valaris
03 Sakonna
00 Type 8 Phasers
01 Upgraded Phasers
05 Multi Adaptive Shields

40 total

You will probably be doing green maneuvers anyway to get rid of the Aux so why not get a free evade too boot. So each turn you can get BS, BS, Evade and 2 rerolls. It's not going to be your main ship but a nice harasser that cannot be ignored. Plus at 40 points there is room for exteas if you want like Systems Upgrade or Cheat Death.


While not an official ruling the Fellowship of the Rules has ruled that the Hathaway's ability must be the 2nd action and must be from the action bar. Thus you wouldn't be able to get BS,BS and Evade.
 
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Sodoff Baldrick
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Heavyguard wrote:

While not an official ruling the Fellowship of the Rules has ruled that the Hathaway's ability must be the 2nd action and must be from the action bar. Thus you wouldn't be able to get BS,BS and Evade.


As you said they are unofficial and their opinions matter no more than yours or mine.
 
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Justin Hare
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I didn't consider limits to altering mine attacks with the Sacrifice idea. I just thought it was clever.

The Hathaway ruling by the Fellowship makes no sense

Speaking of Sacrifices. Who feels like a good old fashioned suicide ship?
Enterprise NX-01 (16)
James T. Kirk (6)
Cheat Death (3)
I Stab at Thee (4)
I Stab at Thee (4)
I Stab at Thee (4)
Matt Decker (1)
Elim Garak (4)
Tasha Yar (3)
Enhanced Hull Plating (0)
Ramming Attack (4)
Total (49)

Fleet total: 49

Generated by Space Dock for Android
http://spacedockapp.org
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John Victor
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I'm not sure how the ruling makes no sense. There's ambiguity in the Hathaway's text.

Does the second action mean it's the second action performed after whatever first action was performed?

Or does it mean taking a second action from the Action Bar after a first action from the Action Bar?


I know everyone probably reads it (or at least at first read it) as the first meaning because it's better. But, knowing WizKids and their 'skill' at wording things the way they actually meant it, I can't tell which it's supposed to be. And sort of expect it to be the second.
 
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David Griffin
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Mr S Baldrick wrote:
Heavyguard wrote:

While not an official ruling the Fellowship of the Rules has ruled that the Hathaway's ability must be the 2nd action and must be from the action bar. Thus you wouldn't be able to get BS,BS and Evade.


As you said they are unofficial and their opinions matter no more than yours or mine.


This is the problem with the company not supporting the game by answering questions. For someone else to "take over" they have to have the support of (at least) the people running tournament games. That is pretty tricky to accomplish unless the game is totally dead (company bankrupt, abandoned game, etc.).

Even if there is no tournament involved, it's nice to have some level of agreement on questionable rules to avoid arguments. Alas there are so many potential arguments to STAW. I say potential because obviously it depends on who is playing.
 
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Justin Hare
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For that combo:

Move
Free action: Evade (Valeris)
Kirk action: Not a BS action
Free action: BS (Second action off of action bar from hathaway)
Gain APT from Hathaway.

I wasn't very clear. I thought the comment pertinent that build made no sense. I am okay with it having to be the second action of the action bar.
 
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John Victor
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Church14 wrote:
For that combo:

Move
Free action: Evade (Valeris)
Kirk action: Not a BS action
Free action: BS (Second action off of action bar from hathaway)
Gain APT from Hathaway.

I wasn't very clear. I thought the comment pertinent that build made no sense. I am okay with it having to be the second action of the action bar.


If this is Kirk-A, he gives you a BS from the action bar for free. So you don't have to use the Hathaway's text.

Although, if the Hathaway's text only means second action bar action, then you'd still be free to use it.

So, Move
Valeris: free evade
Kirk: Kirk BS action
Kirk: BS free action
Hathaway: TL (since Kirk reroll can be used on defense) or Scan or Cloak or Regen or whatever and aux token.

Actually, I guess you can read Hathaway's text either way and this would still work.
 
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Justin Hare
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wiegeabo wrote:
Church14 wrote:
For that combo:

Move
Free action: Evade (Valeris)
Kirk action: Not a BS action
Free action: BS (Second action off of action bar from hathaway)
Gain APT from Hathaway.

I wasn't very clear. I thought the comment pertinent that build made no sense. I am okay with it having to be the second action of the action bar.


If this is Kirk-A, he gives you a BS from the action bar for free. So you don't have to use the Hathaway's text.

Although, if the Hathaway's text only means second action bar action, then you'd still be free to use it.

So, Move
Valeris: free evade
Kirk: Kirk BS action
Kirk: BS free action
Hathaway: TL (since Kirk reroll can be used on defense) or Scan or Cloak or Regen or whatever and aux token.

Actually, I guess you can read Hathaway's text either way and this would still work.


Kirk-A gives you a BS token, he does not provide a BS action, free or otherwise. So the Hathaway could do a BS action.

Wierdly though, the way I read Hathaway, you couldn't do just Kirk-A and Hathaway's free action. Kirk-A isn't off the action bar. You actually need Valeris (or something similar) to get the first action bar action.
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John Victor
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Church14 wrote:
wiegeabo wrote:
Church14 wrote:
For that combo:

Move
Free action: Evade (Valeris)
Kirk action: Not a BS action
Free action: BS (Second action off of action bar from hathaway)
Gain APT from Hathaway.

I wasn't very clear. I thought the comment pertinent that build made no sense. I am okay with it having to be the second action of the action bar.


If this is Kirk-A, he gives you a BS from the action bar for free. So you don't have to use the Hathaway's text.

Although, if the Hathaway's text only means second action bar action, then you'd still be free to use it.

So, Move
Valeris: free evade
Kirk: Kirk BS action
Kirk: BS free action
Hathaway: TL (since Kirk reroll can be used on defense) or Scan or Cloak or Regen or whatever and aux token.

Actually, I guess you can read Hathaway's text either way and this would still work.


Kirk-A gives you a BS token, he does not provide a BS action, free or otherwise. So the Hathaway could do a BS action.

Wierdly though, the way I read Hathaway, you couldn't do just Kirk-A and Hathaway's free action. Kirk-A isn't off the action bar. You actually need Valeris (or something similar) to get the first action bar action.


The end of Kirk-A's text says "You may still perform the Battlestations Action as a free action this round if possible."
 
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Joseph van der Jagt
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There is a Flagship resource that uses the "as a 2nd action" text. In that case, it was required that the action be the second action of the round and the first action didn't have to necessarily be an action bar action. It's not a ruling on the Hathaway but it seems like a pretty undeniable precedent.
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David Griffin
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It seems to me that the new Kirk 9 is trying to "replace" the playing of a BS action with playing a BS action and giving Kirk's ship a different way to spend it.

If that is true, then the Hathaway's action is intended to allow the ship to have a second action at the cost of an Aux Power. Yes it says second action from it's action bar but I'm not convinced that WK meant that it can't be used if you're using Kirk because Kirk's action is intended merely to allow you to take a BS action (from your action bar) with special effects.

WK has made some ... perplexing rulings now and then (when they have bothered to make them) but do we really think this is an out of control effect they are likely to want to "fix?"

If it were me, I'd count that Kirk Battlestations token AS A BATTLESTATION ACTION FROM THE ACTION BAR with special effects. Thus I wouldn't allow another Battlestations action and I would allow the Hathaway to take a second action if it wanted to take an Aux token to do so.

Obviously this is up to WK if they rule and the TOs but that is what seems plausible to me.
 
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Justin Hare
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https://boardgamegeek.com/article/14051879#14051879
Placing a token is NOT the same as performing that action. Kirk-A does not count as performing a BS action.

Joseph-
Good catch on the flagship ruling. I had forgotten about that one. Seems settled to me then.

Though somebody could jam a Power Grid or an Aux Control Room on that ship to get a third action for a turn.
 
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Evan Burris
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I flew Kirk 9 (Ent-A) and used General Orders. Faced Romulans that week, helped out with the cloaking problem.
 
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