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What is the best evidence or arguments in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?

***EDIT***

Here are some of the best arguments that I know for theism to give you a reference:

1.) The scientific evidence thus far points to the impossibility of life arising through natural causes.

2.) The scientific evidence thus far points to the universe having a beginning. Anything that begins to exist must have a transcendent cause.

3.) The fossil record does not support Darwinian evolution.

4.) Objective moral values exist.
____________________________________________________________________

Personally I am a Christian theist. One of the hardest issues I face holding to that view is the problem of evil.

I see two ways around it.

1.) Calvinism, where God salvifically loves only a subset of the human race, and has directed every molecule in the universe to go exactly as Pre-designed. On this view, God is very compatible with the world we see around us (He is said to create evil). I think this is actually a great theological view to look into if you are either an agnostic or atheist that is also on the fence because of the problem of evil.

2.) You could simply say that we are not in any position to make a confident judgment. God may have a perfectly good reason for allowing it to take place that we simply, as finite beings, cannot understand or reason.
 
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Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?


Same line item as the for column... Faith.
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The lack of any evidence otherwise.

Here's a ridiculous (but at such very apt) analogy.

Me: OP, you owe me $1000.
You: No I don't.
Me: Yes, you do, and I demand payment now please.
You: Uh...do you have a bill or any proof of why I owe you money?
Me: My word is good enough. What proof do you have that your account is paid up?
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darthhugo wrote:
Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?


Same line item as the for column... Faith.


Faith is the best evidence?
 
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Phate999 wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?


Same line item as the for column... Faith.


Faith is the best evidence?


Yes.

I believe, and so it is.
 
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Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?

The universe is identical whether G-d exists or does not. Therefore no empirical testing is possible. One can only use logic. Conclusions will vary with premises.
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jrebelo wrote:
The lack of any evidence otherwise.

Here's a ridiculous (but at such very apt) analogy.

Me: OP, you owe me $1000.
You: No I don't.
Me: Yes, you do, and I demand payment now please.
You: Uh...do you have a bill or any proof of why I owe you money?
Me: My word is good enough. What proof do you have that your account is paid up?


I get your point.

But what I am seriously after is what are the best arguments atheism has against theism.

If you don't have any to share, that's ok. Maybe someone will have some solid argument with which I can consider.
 
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Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?

Evidence doesn't work that way.
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whac3 wrote:
Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?

The universe is identical whether G-d exists or does not. Therefore no empirical testing is possible. One can only use logic. Conclusions will vary with premises.

Dude, are you channeling Spock?? laugh

The essence of faith, i.e. religion, is acceptance of something without requiring proof. If you could prove God exists, then it stops being faith, correct? So disproving something held only on faith is as impossible as proving it.

Moshe said it better, but I'm wound up today.
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Phate999 wrote:
I get your point.

But what I am seriously after is what are the best arguments atheism has against theism.

If you don't have any to share, that's ok. Maybe someone will have some solid argument with which I can consider.

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
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Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence or arguments in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?


I altered the OP to include "or arguments".
 
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Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?


The best evidence against is that there is no evidence in favor of the existence of gods.

I don't believe in Odin or Thor. Do you? Why not? What is the evidence in favor of their non-existence?

What about Ra, Ishtar, or Zeus? What is the evidence in favor of their non-existence?

Tell me why you don't believe in those gods, and you'll have my reason for not believing in yours (whatever god or gods that might be).

There are roughly 4,200 current religions today, not counting all the religions of the past. You probably only believe in one of them. I believe in none of them. Tell me why you refuse the accept all the others and you'll get why I don't accept yours. All I've done is add one more religion to the list of "things I don't believe in" than you have.

As much as I'd love to believe in the Loch Ness Monster, there simply isn't any credible evidence of a monster. Thus, I don't believe there is one. Same with the gods listed above.
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I could have solid evidence, but I wouldn't share it. I don't want to take faith, god, away from the believers.

This should be in RSP.

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CoffeeRunner wrote:
I could have solid evidence, but I wouldn't share it. I don't want to take faith, god, away from the believers.

This should be in RSP.



Feel free to GM me.
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CoffeeRunner wrote:
I could have solid evidence, but I wouldn't share it. I don't want to take faith, god, away from the believers.

This should be in RSP.



This *is* in RSP...
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CoffeeRunner wrote:
I could have solid evidence, but I wouldn't share it. I don't want to take faith, god, away from the believers.

This should be in RSP.

...it is.
 
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Phate999 wrote:

I get your point.

But what I am seriously after is what are the best arguments atheism has against theism.

If you don't have any to share, that's ok. Maybe someone will have some solid argument with which I can consider.


But honestly, are you looking for arguments to consider? Are you really questioning your faith? Or are you just looking to debate?

As everyone has clearly outlined here and in the previous thread, the onus is on YOU to back up the existence of god because it is not us but YOU who claims this to be a truth. There are many well articulated arguments against what you are trying to do (celestial teapot, flying spaghetti monster) and the best argument I have the time to give you is to ask you to start by showing your own evidence as to why there IS a god. The rest should fall into place.
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VincentDarlage wrote:
Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?


The best evidence against is that there is no evidence in favor of the existence of gods.

I don't believe in Odin or Thor. Do you? Why not? What is the evidence in favor of their non-existence?

What about Ra, Ishtar, or Zeus? What is the evidence in favor of their non-existence?

Tell me why you don't believe in those gods, and you'll have my reason for not believing in yours (whatever god or gods that might be).

As much as I'd love to believe in the Loch Ness Monster, there simply isn't any credible evidence of a monster. Thus, I don't believe there is one. Same with the gods listed above.


Are there any good arguments? Or is this the best one, that there is just simply no evidence?
 
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jrebelo wrote:
CoffeeRunner wrote:
I could have solid evidence, but I wouldn't share it. I don't want to take faith, god, away from the believers.

This should be in RSP.



This *is* in RSP...


/puts on reading glasses. Oh so it is!
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jrebelo wrote:
Phate999 wrote:

I get your point.

But what I am seriously after is what are the best arguments atheism has against theism.

If you don't have any to share, that's ok. Maybe someone will have some solid argument with which I can consider.


But honestly, are you looking for arguments to consider? Are you really questioning your faith? Or are you just looking to debate?

As everyone has clearly outlined here and in the previous thread, the onus is on YOU to back up the existence of god because it is not us but YOU who claims this to be a truth. There are many well articulated arguments against what you are trying to do (celestial teapot, flying spaghetti monster) and the best argument I have the time to give you is to ask you to start by showing your own evidence as to why there IS a god. The rest should fall into place.

I'm basically saying forget what I believe for a minute and tell me why you believe, the best evidences and arguments that afford your own personal position.

I could have started off with a bunch of points about why I believe what I do, but that is not the purpose of this thread.
 
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damiangerous wrote:
Phate999 wrote:
I get your point.

But what I am seriously after is what are the best arguments atheism has against theism.

If you don't have any to share, that's ok. Maybe someone will have some solid argument with which I can consider.

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

But you can share you own reasoning.
 
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Phate999 wrote:
VincentDarlage wrote:
Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?


The best evidence against is that there is no evidence in favor of the existence of gods.

I don't believe in Odin or Thor. Do you? Why not? What is the evidence in favor of their non-existence?

What about Ra, Ishtar, or Zeus? What is the evidence in favor of their non-existence?

Tell me why you don't believe in those gods, and you'll have my reason for not believing in yours (whatever god or gods that might be).

As much as I'd love to believe in the Loch Ness Monster, there simply isn't any credible evidence of a monster. Thus, I don't believe there is one. Same with the gods listed above.


Are there any good arguments? Or is this the best one, that there is just simply no evidence?


"Simply no evidence" is pretty compelling. You need actual evidence for the existence of a god to counter it.
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darthhugo wrote:
Phate999 wrote:
What is the best evidence in favor of the non-existence of any God or gods?


Same line item as the for column... Faith.


The two are not symmetric. Theist or atheist, if you can't recognise the difference between arguing for the existence of something and the non-existence of something, then you need to improve your logical thinking. Simple case in point: if you take a small sample and find what you are looking for, it exists. If you don't find what you are looking for, it doesn't exist. That's not the only asymmetry, but it's a start.

Note that I'm not here arguing either way, or what having recognised an asymmetry, what you do about it. Just let's start with step one. The two are not symmetric.
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You can't prove a negative. It's up to believers to prove the existence of a god.


Here's a relevant quote I read somewhere: "Religion is like a penis. It's OK for you to love and admire yours, but you don't have the right to bring it out in public and don't try to force it on children."
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Phate999 wrote:
jrebelo wrote:
Phate999 wrote:

I get your point.

But what I am seriously after is what are the best arguments atheism has against theism.

If you don't have any to share, that's ok. Maybe someone will have some solid argument with which I can consider.


But honestly, are you looking for arguments to consider? Are you really questioning your faith? Or are you just looking to debate?

As everyone has clearly outlined here and in the previous thread, the onus is on YOU to back up the existence of god because it is not us but YOU who claims this to be a truth. There are many well articulated arguments against what you are trying to do (celestial teapot, flying spaghetti monster) and the best argument I have the time to give you is to ask you to start by showing your own evidence as to why there IS a god. The rest should fall into place.

I'm basically saying forget what I believe for a minute and tell me why you believe, the best evidences and arguments that afford your own personal position.

I could have started off with a bunch of points about why I believe what I do, but that is not the purpose of this thread.


I'm having a hard time figuring out what your position is.
If you are just joking, sarcasm or just wanting to,debate, then this is a whole other discussion
 
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