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Subject: "The Coward" Secret Claim clarification rss

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Matthew Titelbaum
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Issaquah
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The text on The Coward secret claim card says:

Quote:
Have the Jail*, Moonshine Angie, but do NOT have Sheriff Reeves


This goal was confusing to us. I originally thought it was going to be slightly difficult, because completely supplying the Jail brings Sheriff Reeves to your saloon. Then, I realized that I could purchase and place the Jail without completing it. At that point, I would "Have the Jail" but "NOT have Sheriff Reeves", right?

It shouldn't be that simple, right? Should the text read something like "Complete the Jail" instead of simply "Have"?

I enjoyed the game quite a bit, but there was a bit of general confusion whether certain things trigger when placing a tile or completing it.

---Matt
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Jason Brown
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You can bribe him to leave...
 
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A.J. Porfirio
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Keep in mind that Secret Claims do not score until the end of the game. So yeah if you never complete the jail you can control it somewhat. But you still need to have Moonshine Angie at the end of the game. Depending on game state it may make sense to finish it and hope someone takes him but move him late if you have to.
 
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Matthew Titelbaum
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vanrydergames wrote:
Keep in mind that Secret Claims do not score until the end of the game. So yeah if you never complete the jail you can control it somewhat. But you still need to have Moonshine Angie at the end of the game. Depending on game state it may make sense to finish it and hope someone takes him but move him late if you have to.


This kinda dodges the issue. The intention here is simply having the tile? If I purchase the tile and never complete it, the Sheriff will never enter play. Bribing Moonshine Angie over (or getting her free for purchasing 5 tiles) and purchasing the Jail for 10 gold doesn't seem worth 10 points. Are you sure the intention here wasn't to actually complete the Jail and then bribe the Sheriff away?

---Matt
 
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A.J. Porfirio
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mtitelbaum wrote:
vanrydergames wrote:
Keep in mind that Secret Claims do not score until the end of the game. So yeah if you never complete the jail you can control it somewhat. But you still need to have Moonshine Angie at the end of the game. Depending on game state it may make sense to finish it and hope someone takes him but move him late if you have to.


This kinda dodges the issue. The intention here is simply having the tile? If I purchase the tile and never complete it, the Sheriff will never enter play. Bribing Moonshine Angie over (or getting her free for purchasing 5 tiles) and purchasing the Jail for 10 gold doesn't seem worth 10 points. Are you sure the intention here wasn't to actually complete the Jail and then bribe the Sheriff away?

---Matt


Hey Matt,

Yes, as the publisher, I am sure. Have = Have (you still HAVE a tile even if it is not "finished", that wording is not coincidence).

I don't understand your comment. Why would bribing Angie to come over not be worth it but bribing the Sherriff away would? Not trying to be snarky, but bribing costs the same either way. Also, I can confidently say that if you have a play that gives you 1 pt per 1 gold spent, that is a great investment.

In any case, I think you will find during gameplay that although not completing the Jail for the sake of this claim makes it easier, that may not be the best choice. Are there other claims with Sherrif Reeves you can complete? Completing and having Reeves can be seen as a hedge... you keep him for 5 points, or if someone happens to take him or you are able to give him away, you get the additional 5 points (assuming you have Angie). Many of the tough decisions in this game relate to opportunity cost of doing something else.

Hope that helps. I always feel like "I'm the publisher" messages come off brash so if the above does, I apologize.

Thanks for playing ST!

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Matthew Titelbaum
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vanrydergames wrote:
mtitelbaum wrote:
vanrydergames wrote:
Keep in mind that Secret Claims do not score until the end of the game. So yeah if you never complete the jail you can control it somewhat. But you still need to have Moonshine Angie at the end of the game. Depending on game state it may make sense to finish it and hope someone takes him but move him late if you have to.


This kinda dodges the issue. The intention here is simply having the tile? If I purchase the tile and never complete it, the Sheriff will never enter play. Bribing Moonshine Angie over (or getting her free for purchasing 5 tiles) and purchasing the Jail for 10 gold doesn't seem worth 10 points. Are you sure the intention here wasn't to actually complete the Jail and then bribe the Sheriff away?

---Matt


Hey Matt,

Yes, as the publisher, I am sure. Have = Have (you still HAVE a tile even if it is not "finished", that wording is not coincidence).

I don't understand your comment. Why would bribing Angie to come over not be worth it but bribing the Sherriff away would? Not trying to be snarky, but bribing costs the same either way. Also, I can confidently say that if you have a play that gives you 1 pt per 1 gold spent, that is a great investment.

In any case, I think you will find during gameplay that although not completing the Jail for the sake of this claim makes it easier, that may not be the best choice. Are there other claims with Sherrif Reeves you can complete? Completing and having Reeves can be seen as a hedge... you keep him for 5 points, or if someone happens to take him or you are able to give him away, you get the additional 5 points (assuming you have Angie). Many of the tough decisions in this game relate to opportunity cost of doing something else.

Hope that helps. I always feel like "I'm the publisher" messages come off brash so if the above does, I apologize.

Thanks for playing ST!



AJ,

I love this game. I'm not trying to pick nits.

This particular claim seems too easy to accomplish, though. It seems like, if just having the Jail tile and getting Moonshine Angie is enough to complete it, that this should be worth less than 10 points.

When I first looked at this card in my hand, I missed the part about having the Jail and thought it was super easy.

On second look, when I saw I needed the Jail, I assumed that "having the Jail" meant "completing the Jail" which made this much more difficult, 10 gold to buy the Jail tile, 6 gold to complete, and 8 more gold to bribe the Sheriff away.

On third look, one of my opponents noticed that I only needed to buy the Jail tile but not complete it.

It just seemed too easy and I thought we must have been misreading it.

I was saying that the point total seemed too high. If I have this card, it's really easy to keep the Sheriff out of my saloon (and out of the game) if I buy the Jail, and it's not too difficult to just bribe Moonshine Angie over. It would be much more difficult if the Jail had to be completed.

My other Private Claim was "Drinking Buddies", which paired well with "The Coward".

Fwiw, the other players I played with thought the contention over characters before the last round made it too swingy for their liking.

One note on the player aid, I think you might want to add the bribing cost on it for future printings. It was the only cost that required consulting the rulebook, and there's plenty of room for it on the player aid.

I definitely look forward to future plays. I hope I haven't offended.

---Matt

 
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A.J. Porfirio
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Not offeneded at all. I completely agree on the reference card. One of the first things I noticed in the final copy.

I'm not so stubborn as to defend the claim to the death. You may be right, but I still think you give up something by not finishing the tile.

Thanks for the feedback. We'll keep it in mind to look at closely if there are ever future editions of the game.
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