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Subject: +1 attacker bonus rss

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David O'Neil
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Last night a player I was introducing to the game had the +1 attack card and wanted to make an attack from a single-army province. His argument was that he would add the extra attacking army to the province and then make the attack with that extra army only. I had a problem with this, but didn't make a big deal because he was attacking me and I didn't want to look like I was trying to interpret the rules in my favor. Does anyone know if there is a solid ruling on this situation? Can you attack a province with only the single extra army you receive from the +1 attack card?
 
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Michael Marvosh
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I don't think so. The card lets the attacker toss one extra cube into the tower. Before that happened, it would be an attack with zero armies.
 
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Steen Bang-Madsen
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I believe the rules state, that the +1 is only granted, if you are actually attacking, and not merely moving your army to another of your own lands. From this I gather, that the cube isn't added until you actually move into a hostile territory. So I would agree with Drinkdrawers, and say you cannot do that.
 
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The Seal of Approval
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I would also chime in and say "you need to actually MOVE an army, before you can add any bonuses"
Otherwise, you could also attack just with armies you've left in the tray.

As far as I could find, this is not clearly stated in the rules. However, the rules say:
Quote:
Armies are moved from the selected province into an adjacent one. If the adjacent province does not belong to the moving player (i.e.,the adjacent province is neutral or owned by another player),a battle ensues.


Notice: "Armies are moved from the selected province into an adjacent one."
How would you move armies if there's only one, and the rules clearly state that one army must remain in the province?
 
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David O'Neil
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Thanks to everyone for their feedback. So far it seems the majority is with me that the bonus cube would not apply if there were no other attacking cubes (although the lack of a clear explanation of the situation in the rulebook is unfortunate). The way I understand it now is that the attack must precede the bonus. It is irrational to imagine the bonus preceding the attack, because it is the attack with activates the bonus. And if the bonus does not precede the attack, then there must be additional attacking cubes.

I think the misunderstanding came up in the game I was playing because the new players had a habit of putting the bonus cube on the province before throwing everything in the tower. This made it seem like the bonus preceded the attack, although actually it did not.
 
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David Gardner
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page 11 of English rules, under picture of red daimyo, is the following sidebar (caps as bolds):

"Note: To attack a province, a player must have AT LEAST 2 ARMIES in the province from which his armies depart: 1 to move into the battlefield prince and 1 to leave behind."

We take this pretty literally. We would not therefore allow a player to attack another province with just one army in his own province, trying to claim the extra cube attacker as a legal attack. We had this come up tonight ourselves, and found that extra line on page 11. --David G.
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Evan Stegman
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I think the rules are pretty clear you don't just declare an attack (see Asperamanca's rules quote above).

You FIRST move one or more armies from one of your provinces to another province.

If the province you moved them to is your own province, nothing happens.

If the province you moved them to is someone else's or a neutral province, an attack takes place.

I think the problem stems from people assuming it works like, say, Risk where you resolve the attack and then move.

In Shogun, you move, then resolve the attack.

So you can't add the +1 to an attack from a province with just one army because you have no army to move to trigger the attack in the first place.
 
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Alex Klingonsmith
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Wondering why he wanted to attack with one army in the first place?
battles aren't won without numbers on your side the majority of the time.
 
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David O'Neil
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The reason he wanted to attack was because he would get the free cube, so he'd either kill an opponent's cube at no cost to himself or get an extra cube in the tower for later. It made sense as a strategy; it's just not supported by the rules.
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