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Zombicide: Black Plague» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rules Questions rss

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Brendan Slade
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After just playing through my first couple of games I have come up with a couple of questions.

1. If a survivor attempts to open a door and fails do they create noise? I can't see anything in the rules suggesting that a failed attempt is still noisy it only says that breaking open a door is noisy.

2. If I shoot a ranged weapon into a zone with a single walker and a Survivor and that ranged weapon requires rolling 2 dice such as the Orcish Crossbow. If one of the dice is a 6 and the other is a 1. Does the 1 hit the survivor?

3. Double Spawns, they have been doing my head in.

Scenario A
Zombie Spawn Point 1= Double Spawn. No zombies at Spawn 1.
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 2. Draw 2 zombie spawn cards get 2 walkers and 1 fatty. No problems. All the double spawn has done is moved a spawn from Point 1 to Point 2.

Scenario B
Zombie Spawn Point 1= Double Spawn. No zombies at Spawn 1.
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 2. Draw 2 Zombie spawn cards and 1 is a Double Spawn and the other is 2 walkers. Place 2 walkers at Zombie Spawn point 2 .
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 3. Draw 2 zombie spawn cards, get 2 walkers and 1 fatty. Place 2 walkers and fatty in Zombie Spawn point 3. All the double spawns have done is shifted one spawn from point 1-2 and 1 spawn from point 2-3 but overall number of zombies has stayed the same.

Scenario C
Zombie Spawn Point 1= Double Spawn. No zombies at Spawn 1.
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 2. Draw 2 Zombie spawn cards and both are double spawn (PANIC and spend 20 mins trying to decide what to do)
No zombies at Zombie spawn point 2.
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 3 and draw 4 zombie spawn cards. Get 2 walkers, 4 walkers, a fatty and an abomination. Place all in Zombie Spawn point 3.
Double spawns have increased total number of spawns from 3->4 somehow?

Scenario D
Zombie Spawn Point 1= Double Spawn. No zombies at Spawn 1.
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 2. Draw 2 Zombie spawn cards and both are double spawn (PANIC and spend 20 mins trying to decide what to do)
No zombies at Zombie spawn point 2.
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 3 and draw 4 zombie spawn cards. These are all double spawns!!! (Yes I drew 7 Double Spawns in a row in this game) Would this mean draw 8 zombie cards at Zombie spawn point 4?

Scenario E
At the final zombie spawn point I draw a double spawn. This would then mean at the start of the next round I would get a double spawn for Zombie Point 1. What happens if I open a building though in my turn? Does the first room then get a double spawn instead?

What happens when I start drawing double spawns and necromancers?
Scenario F
Zombie Spawn Point 1= Double Spawn. No zombies at Spawn 1.
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 2. Draw 2 Zombie spawn cards. One Necromancer and 1 Double spawn.
Necromancer lays down his own spawn tile and spawns zombies so does he do a double spawn on this tile or does the double spawn go to the next normal zombie spawn point? What happens if the necromancers spawn is then a double spawn? Does that mean that this double spawn is then moved to the next zombie spawn point as well as the original double spawn? Leading to 4 spawn cards being played at the next zombie spawn point?

Thanks for any assistance.
 
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Bone White
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1. See page 15:

Quote:
Each Action that opens a door with a
noisy Equipment or attacks with a noisy Equipment produces
a Noise token.


The action causes the noise because the equipment is noisy, not whether it succeeds or not. This is further reinforced by page 19:

Quote:
Melee weapons with the “Open a door” symbol can be used to
open a door next to the Survivor. Spend an Action and roll as
many dice as the weapon’s Dice value: the door is opened if
any die result equals or exceeds the Accuracy number of the
weapon. Place a Noise token in the Zone.


"Place a Noise token" is in a separate sentence that begins to "the door is opened if...".

So the noise token is always placed.


2. Yes, see page 34:

Quote:
EXAMPLE 1: Baldric shoots with a Crossbow (Dice 2, Accuracy
4+, Damage 2) at a Zone containing Clovis and two Walkers.
He rolls 5 and 2: one hit and one miss! The hit kills a Walker,
and the miss means a bolt hits his fellow Survivor. Clovis takes 2
Wounds. Ouch.



3. I actually don't know the complete justification for this as the book isn't mechanically specific for longer chains of double spawn cards, so I'd appreciate hearing other's views on this.
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Sam ko
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Vladvonbounce wrote:
Scenario E
At the final zombie spawn point I draw a double spawn. This would then mean at the start of the next round I would get a double spawn for Zombie Point 1. What happens if I open a building though in my turn? Does the first room then get a double spawn instead?
No when you draw a double spawn at the final zombie spawn/room, you immediately go back to the first spawn/room and spawn two cards there, you never keep spawn cards for later.
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Chuck Hurd
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Vladvonbounce wrote:
Scenario D
Zombie Spawn Point 1= Double Spawn. No zombies at Spawn 1.
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 2. Draw 2 Zombie spawn cards and both are double spawn (PANIC and spend 20 mins trying to decide what to do)
No zombies at Zombie spawn point 2.
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 3 and draw 4 zombie spawn cards. These are all double spawns!!! (Yes I drew 7 Double Spawns in a row in this game) Would this mean draw 8 zombie cards at Zombie spawn point 4?

Yes, correct, 8 cards at point 4 (4 times double spawn).

Vladvonbounce wrote:
Scenario E
At the final zombie spawn point I draw a double spawn. This would then mean at the start of the next round I would get a double spawn for Zombie Point 1. What happens if I open a building though in my turn? Does the first room then get a double spawn instead?

A double spawn in the final point must be resolved during that zombie phase, not saved for the next one. You must draw 2 cards back at point 1.

Also, building spawns are always kept separate from regular zombie phase spawns and vice versa. You would never jump from a regular spawn to a building, nor from a building spawn to the regular zombie phase spawn circuit.

Vladvonbounce wrote:
What happens when I start drawing double spawns and necromancers?
Scenario F
Zombie Spawn Point 1= Double Spawn. No zombies at Spawn 1.
Go to Zombie Spawn Point 2. Draw 2 Zombie spawn cards. One Necromancer and 1 Double spawn.
Necromancer lays down his own spawn tile and spawns zombies so does he do a double spawn on this tile or does the double spawn go to the next normal zombie spawn point? What happens if the necromancers spawn is then a double spawn? Does that mean that this double spawn is then moved to the next zombie spawn point as well as the original double spawn? Leading to 4 spawn cards being played at the next zombie spawn point?

Suspend the double spawn card you drew at point 2, then lay down the necro spawn token and resolve the necro extra spawn. Any double spawns drawn as part of the necro extra spawn are resolved on the necro spawn token. Fully resolve the necro's extra spawn before going back to pick up your suspended double spawn. Advance to point 3 and draw two cards.
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Angelus Seniores
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double spawns;
you resolved A,B,C and D correctly, the spawns are moved which normally keeps the total nr of spawns the same but just moves them, but in case you get a double spawn on a previous double spawn then indeed an extra spawn card will be added.

for E, if you are at the last spawn point when you draw a double spawn, you immediately go to the first spawn point and there perform the double spawn ie you dont wait until the next zombie turn to spawn these.

with necromancers, you perform the double spawn on the next spawn point as normal, not on the new necro spawn point (regard this spawn point as outside of the normal loop for now, but on the future zombie phases it will be part of the loop).
if the necromancer spawn is a double spawn, move it to the next spawn point as well.

note also, that if a zone has 2 spawn points, then first draw for the first point, if its a double spawn it is resolved at the 2nd point so still within the same zone, but if the card for the 2nd spawn is a double spawn, move it to the next spawn point as normal.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Angelsenior wrote:
if the necromancer spawn is a double spawn, move it to the next spawn point as well.

This is incorrect.

When the special spawn for the Necromancer Spawn Token's first placement is drawn is a Double Spawn, you resolve a Double Spawn for the Necro Token.

Essentially, the Necromancer's spawn is resolved as a spawning event on a single Zone that fully resolves itself before you continue back to whatever spawning sequence spawned the Necromancer.

After the original spawn sequence completes, the Necromancer token will be part of the normal End Phase sequence as if it was a normal spawn token, even if it is inside a building.
 
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Brendan Slade
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Thanks for all the help. Makes much more sense now.
 
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Sean Watson

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Is there any fixed player order for the heroes? I notice there is a First Player token. Does it pass to the left at the end of the player round? Do the players have to go in order or can the party fiddle with the order each round?

Are noise tokens even necessary to the game if the party pretty much sticks together?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The rules for the token are explained when the round changes. Take a look at the summary on the back page of the rules (specifically the End Phase).

When a player controls multiple Survivors, they choose the order in which their Survivors activate, but the play order of players is determined by the token and is strictly defined.

Note that when playing with only 1 or 2 players, the written rules are a bit poor. You can choose any order when playing solo and 2-players turns into each player getting two turns in a row. You're better off house-ruling it to close match the 6-player game. I like the challenge of this, and set up the order for the Survivors to alternate turns between players in 2-player.

Noise tokens are definitely necessary. Remember that the Noise tokens are generated by many actions, such as trying to open doors or casting Combat Spells, and stay in the Zone in which the action was initiated. It's very likely that a Zone you make noise in and leave behind may end up having more Noise than the Survivor tokens in the destination Zone. This can lead to more splitting, or different ombie paths than you would otherwise expect, especially if you split into two groups of 3 Survivors.
 
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Brian Smith
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Clipper wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:
if the necromancer spawn is a double spawn, move it to the next spawn point as well.

This is incorrect.

When the special spawn for the Necromancer Spawn Token's first placement is drawn is a Double Spawn, you resolve a Double Spawn for the Necro Token.

Essentially, the Necromancer's spawn is resolved as a spawning event on a single Zone that fully resolves itself before you continue back to whatever spawning sequence spawned the Necromancer.

After the original spawn sequence completes, the Necromancer token will be part of the normal End Phase sequence as if it was a normal spawn token, even if it is inside a building.


Jorgen,

Are you sure? Based on the following replies from CMON the double spawn seems to move forward to the next zone. In the example below (bolded part) the double spawn drawn in the necromancer's spawn does move forward to the next zone.

Perhaps you are talking about a different situation? For example, if you draw a double spawn in the previous zone and then draw a necromancer and a double spawn in the next zone. The double spawn does NOT move forward in this case. The double spawn is resolved in the Necromancer's zone.

--------------------

Isadora Souza Leite (CoolMiniOrNot)
Nov 16, 13:20 EST
Hello Briansmith,

Zone 1 - Double spawn. Nothing here.

Zone 2 - Draw two cards, a Necromancer and a Double Spawn. The Necromancer and its Zone are placed here. The Double Spawn is resolved in the next Spawn Zone, which is now the Necromancer’s Spawn Zone.

Necromancer Spawn Zone - Draw two cards, a Zombie and a Double Spawn. The Zombie is placed here, and the Double Spawn is resolved in the next Spawn Zone.

Zone 4 - Draw 2 cards, etc...

CMON Inc
1290 Old Alpharetta Rd
Alpharetta, GA 30005

----------------

Isadora Souza Leite (CoolMiniOrNot)
Nov 11, 13:30 EST
Hello Briansmith,

There’s no fundamental difference between the necromancer’s spawn zone and the other spawn zones. Double spawns always affect the next spawn zone in order.

Best regards,
Isadora
CMON Inc
1290 Old Alpharetta Rd
Alpharetta, GA 30005

-----------------

 
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Brian Smith
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<< Suspend the double spawn card you drew at point 2, then lay down the necro spawn token and resolve the necro extra spawn. Any double spawns drawn as part of the necro extra spawn are resolved >>

Chuck, based on CMON's response I believe this is incorrect. See my post above. If you draw a double spawn a part of a necromancer's spawn the double spawn moves to next zone. If the Necromancer's spawn was in zone #2 the double spawn would resolve in zone #3.

To be clear I'm not stating this authoritatively; I'm just interpreting CMON's responses. Do you guys see this differently?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Bghead8che wrote:
Jorgen,

Are you sure?


To be honest, no. The view I expressed then was based on what we thought in September of 2016. In November of 2016 we received the rulings you quoted and I totally changed my mind on the correct way of playing.

Incidentally, the November rulings also contradict rulings we received very early on, and I've pretty much given up on trying to come up with a method that fits all the rulings, as there are too many contradictions and falsehoods.

The way I now handle it is to insert it into the spawn sequence, as in the examples in the newer rulings. Also, if the building spawn happens to wrap around due to the start due to late Double Spawns, you include the Necromancer Zone again at the same point in the sequence (this is the part that contradicts the earlier rulings).
 
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Brian Smith
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I just noticed this thread was from September! I thought the thread was new and I was confused as to why you and Chuck were posting double spawns do not move forward. I was thinking, c'mon guys, this has been clarified. ;-) Sorry for the confusion on my part.

For others just reading this thread now, Double Spawns drawn by during a Necromancer's spawn DO move forward to the next zone.

Jorgen, regarding room spawns my understanding is the necromancer zone is NOT part of the room spawn and is ignored once it is placed. I probably just don't remember, did we receive clarification they are to be included as part of the rotation?



 
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Brian Smith
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2 Player Game
I never noticed this as I usually play two player games only. I assume only a two player game would result in the same player getting a turn two times in a row? I now wonder if it does indeed make more sense for the players to alternate so that no one player gets two turns in a row.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Bghead8che wrote:
Jorgen, regarding room spawns my understanding is the necromancer zone is NOT part of the room spawn and is ignored once it is placed. I probably just don't remember, did we receive clarification they are to be included as part of the rotation?

The responses above say the Necromancer token is part of the room spawn sequence. I see no reason to remove them again when you rotate around as the rules say to follow exactly the same sequence on repeat spawns.

Yes, we did have an earlier ruling that said the Necromancer Spawn was not part of the building spawns and hence should not be revisited in the return path. It was this ruling that led us to believe that Necromancer Spawns were self-contained in their own Zone.

The two sets of rulings are thus in conflict with each other. Following one method seems to totally violate the other method. I prefer to follow the more recent ruling and just ignore the earlier ruling ever existed.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Bghead8che wrote:
I never noticed this as I usually play two player games only. I assume only a two player game would result in the same player getting a turn two times in a row? I now wonder if it does indeed make more sense for the players to alternate so that no one player gets two turns in a row.

Yeah, the effect the turn ordering has on two-player is weird. Alternating between Survivors keeps you much more engaged as you don't have a massive period of down-time.
 
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Brendan Slade
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With 2 player we don't alternate turns but with 3 player or more it is really handy. It is important to take it into consideration when strategising for your next turn.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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Bghead8che wrote:
<< Suspend the double spawn card you drew at point 2, then lay down the necro spawn token and resolve the necro extra spawn. Any double spawns drawn as part of the necro extra spawn are resolved >>

Chuck, based on CMON's response I believe this is incorrect. See my post above. If you draw a double spawn a part of a necromancer's spawn the double spawn moves to next zone. If the Necromancer's spawn was in zone #2 the double spawn would resolve in zone #3.

To be clear I'm not stating this authoritatively; I'm just interpreting CMON's responses. Do you guys see this differently?

Yeah, there are now, potentially, two schools of play. Pre-contradiction and post-contradiction. Frankly, the contradictions and erradic rulings are quite frustrating to try to keep up with. I say just play it how you like it. Personally, I like the pre-contradiction rules (the necro comes with its own army and his spawn is resolved entirely on his token no matter how many double spawns you draw)...which is a conundrum for me because that is just about the only "official" GG ruling that I like. There have been a few that just make me scratch my head (and other body parts).
 
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Brian Smith
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Carcking wrote:
Bghead8che wrote:
<< Suspend the double spawn card you drew at point 2, then lay down the necro spawn token and resolve the necro extra spawn. Any double spawns drawn as part of the necro extra spawn are resolved >>

Chuck, based on CMON's response I believe this is incorrect. See my post above. If you draw a double spawn a part of a necromancer's spawn the double spawn moves to next zone. If the Necromancer's spawn was in zone #2 the double spawn would resolve in zone #3.

To be clear I'm not stating this authoritatively; I'm just interpreting CMON's responses. Do you guys see this differently?

Yeah, there are now, potentially, two schools of play. Pre-contradiction and post-contradiction. Frankly, the contradictions and erradic rulings are quite frustrating to try to keep up with. I say just play it how you like it. Personally, I like the pre-contradiction rules (the necro comes with its own army and his spawn is resolved entirely on his token no matter how many double spawns you draw)...which is a conundrum for me because that is just about the only "official" GG ruling that I like. There have been a few that just make me scratch my head (and other body parts).


I really wish I knew or knew how to get a hold of the actual game designers to ask them how spawning actually works. I'm curious how they would play out the necromancer spawns.

I agree with you. I like the original ruling better and it fits better with the rules which state you should do a separate Necromancer spawn.

You do wonder how they wrote these rules and left out what is a very common scenario?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I hold out hope that they might just manage to include something conclusive in the Black Plague 2 rules, whenever that gets made. The rulebook for Black Plague is actually really good (except for one glaring monstrosity of a rule) and covers almost all corner cases. It's really unfortunate that the rulings have not managed to match that level of quality.
 
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Sean Watson

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Clipper wrote:
Noise tokens are definitely necessary. Remember that the Noise tokens are generated by many actions, such as trying to open doors or casting Combat Spells, and stay in the Zone in which the action was initiated. It's very likely that a Zone you make noise in and leave behind may end up having more Noise than the Survivor tokens in the destination Zone. This can lead to more splitting, or different ombie paths than you would otherwise expect, especially if you split into two groups of 3 Survivors.


I just finished my first game earlier this week, and I didn't see how noise tokens affected the game that much simply because I had the zombies attacking the closest visible players. Is it often the case that my result would different from someone meticulously employing noise tokens? The players mostly stayed together or were in two groups dealing with zombies that came at them from both sides. I'm just struggling to see how noise tokens affect the game as much as you imply.
 
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Sean Watson

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Went back and reread the rules again, and I see now that I was not interpreting the rules correctly. Zombies go to the noisiest visible zone with survivors, regardless of distance, then the noisiest zone. I see now how quieter visible heroes could be ignored in favor of noisier, more remote heroes. I wonder how often that comes into play, but I'll definitely try to find out in my next game.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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watsonsd1 wrote:
Went back and reread the rules again, and I see now that I was not interpreting the rules correctly. Zombies go to the noisiest visible zone with survivors, regardless of distance, then the noisiest zone. I see now how quieter visible heroes could be ignored in favor of noisier, more remote heroes. I wonder how often that comes into play, but I'll definitely try to find out in my next game.

Not quite. LoS trumps Noise for zombie targeting. So if a zombie sees one survivor and cannot see a zone with 7 noise in it, it will target the survivor it sees. Any/all zombies that cannot see a survivor will target the 7 noise (assume it's the noisiest zone in this example).

You have to use tokens to indicate where noise has been made. If you're not doing that you're missing out on something.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Yeah, I think many people totally misunderstand the noise rules, and then think the tokens are useless. Try again with the proper rules and you may well notice things you didn't expect. The major issue you'll find is when Zombies split due to you have two Zones sharing loudest noise and the Zombies are at a crossroads. If they can't see Survivors, they'll seek out both Zones, taking the shortest path to each.
 
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Brendan Slade
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We usually keep all our survivors together in one group so the noise tokens can be rather irrelevant most turns as the zombies are all just heading to the same place anyway.

It is an interesting tactic with magic users though when faced with a lot of wolves to cast a couple of spells and then step back a tile and watch the wolves pounce on all the noise you made and the stop allowing you to zap them again next turn.
 
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