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Subject: Descent 2ED & co into the DUST with you rss

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Steve Z
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Guys I dont know what to say, when I saw the numbers my only thought was:

All those "awesome" and well established Dungeon Crawler outside "INTO THE DUST" with you!

Just the tiles:

30 double Sidesd Map Tiles!
155 2-Sided Overlay-Tiles!

Speechless? Check the cards:


Cards:
WHAT THE FUCK!
504 Char Cards
457 Attack Modifier Cards
232 Monster Ability Cards
253 Item Cards
150 Event Cards
+- 70 other cards
________
+- ca. 1 . 1 62 cards!+*


to be fair, a lot of those are small cards


+ Tokens / Maps / Stuff / More Stuff


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Antonio Caciolli
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do we know the character size card ... they are the only I think it is worth to buy an envelope (maybe not for all, but only for the one in the PC hands)
 
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Nick
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Cant wait for the game, slightly worried about organising everything and keeping the box in good order so set up doesn't take half an hour.

It might become a game which we play over a day on a weekend or something rather than at our weekly 7-11pm work night game meetup. Probably more fun that way anyway as you can do several missions in a burst and buy new goodies etc at Gloomhaven and get that upgrade buzz like you do in Arcadia Quest!
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Brian C
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And it was in the same price range as any other normal kickstarter game.

I hope Isaac gets heaps of success for putting this juggernaut together for us at such a bargain price.
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Timothy Young
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Ok, but.... lots of stuff doesn't necessarily equate to superior gameplay.
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Luke Jacobs
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TIM0THY wrote:
Ok, but.... lots of stuff doesn't necessarily equate to superior gameplay.


Absolutely true, and worth noting.

From what I've seen of the rules, I'm excited to dig in.

However, as with any ambitious creative project, I'm keeping my expectations low, and trying not to fill in things that don't exist.

If it's great, awesome. If it's a mess, well sometimes Kickstarter is a roll of the dice.
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Jebstone Boppman
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TIM0THY wrote:
Ok, but.... lots of stuff doesn't necessarily equate to superior gameplay.


Yeah, I'm on this boat now. Looking at this component count doesn't really excite me, it just kind of makes me get prepared for a fiddly game that takes too long to setup.

The Descent and Mansions app have spoiled me, and I don't really wanna have to setup 50 decks anymore when an app can take care of all that book keeping for me.
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Luke Jacobs
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Jebstone wrote:
TIM0THY wrote:
Ok, but.... lots of stuff doesn't necessarily equate to superior gameplay.


Yeah, I'm on this boat now.


There are exceptions, but often when I see a Kickstarter that proclaims proudly they have a large number of tokens, I take a pass. I think it's a common misconception in the Kickstarter design philosophy that more plastic and cardboard crap means a better product.

For instance, I own a bunch of chibi minis for games I would never play. Love those chibi minis though.

I'm willing to check Gloomhaven out, because I want to see what this insanely ambitious project comes out as.
 
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Daily Grind
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Jebstone wrote:
TIM0THY wrote:
Ok, but.... lots of stuff doesn't necessarily equate to superior gameplay.


Yeah, I'm on this boat now. Looking at this component count doesn't really excite me, it just kind of makes me get prepared for a fiddly game that takes too long to setup.

As someone who played the PnP before buying, and also one who loves a leisurely sunday afternoon playing arkham horror, I'm nothing but excited for this monster. But I sure do understand folks who are adverse to long setup. Guess we'll have to see where it lands.
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Luke Jacobs
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cafin8d wrote:
Jebstone wrote:
TIM0THY wrote:
Ok, but.... lots of stuff doesn't necessarily equate to superior gameplay.


Yeah, I'm on this boat now. Looking at this component count doesn't really excite me, it just kind of makes me get prepared for a fiddly game that takes too long to setup.

As someone who played the PnP before buying, and also one who loves a leisurely sunday afternoon playing arkham horror, I'm nothing but excited for this monster. But I sure do understand folks who are adverse to long setup. Guess we'll have to see where it lands.


Low expectations and high hopes!

Although the rules seem pretty solid so far, which bolsters the hopes.

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Luke Jacobs
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Exo Desta wrote:
And it was in the same price range as any other normal kickstarter game.

I hope Isaac gets heaps of success for putting this juggernaut together for us at such a bargain price.


Also worth noting!

That really is impressive.
 
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Jonas Vanschooren
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And Isaac's first game was already a brilliant heavy euro, so nothing but high hopes for this.
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Christophe Jannin
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Spukky wrote:
And Isaac's first game was already a brilliant heavy euro, so nothing but high hopes for this.


with the smallest cubes known to mankind
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Jonas Vanschooren
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haplo92 wrote:
Spukky wrote:
And Isaac's first game was already a brilliant heavy euro, so nothing but high hopes for this.


with the smallest cubes known to mankind


Lol, true, but they actually work great I found for the quest progress.
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Simon Taylor
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TIM0THY wrote:
Ok, but.... lots of stuff doesn't necessarily equate to superior gameplay.


Honestly, this is my big worry here. Super excited for the game, but I don't have time to sort out 5 or 6 decks of cards, maps, tokens, characters, bookkeeping etc etc before I play. With 2 kids and a wife, my (grown up) gaming time is already limited.

I'm trying not to read anything more about the game, to ensure I get the most from it when it arrives.

Sleeves though... going to need a lot of sleeves for the character combat decks, since they'll be shuffled constantly I would think



 
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Steve Z
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simondtaylor wrote:
TIM0THY wrote:
Ok, but.... lots of stuff doesn't necessarily equate to superior gameplay.


Honestly, this is my big worry here. Super excited for the game, but I don't have time to sort out 5 or 6 decks of cards, maps, tokens, characters, bookkeeping etc etc before I play. With 2 kids and a wife, my (grown up) gaming time is already limited.

I'm trying not to read anything more about the game, to ensure I get the most from it when it arrives.

Sleeves though... going to need a lot of sleeves for the character combat decks, since they'll be shuffled constantly I would think





Hey ho,

I was a playtester and played around 30-40? + games . I really think the Setup-Up time is not that big deal imo. Still it´s not finished in 1 min. I also think if you are familia with everything you can handle it in under 5-7 min.

And because of your concerns, as I described in my review, you may want to check it out, I had a blast with this game and all of my friends too. That´s why we bought Gloomhaven 3x times in our gaming group. And almost every other person backed after a playtest with me too. So ^^ dont worry
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Daily Grind
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Vex85 wrote:
I was a playtester and played around 30-40? + games . I really thing the Setup Up time is not that big deal imo. Still it´s not finished in 1 min. I think if you are familia with everything you can handle it in under 5-7 min.

Nice to hear. Based on the intro dungeon I was assuming that was the case, but wasn't sure if it got bigger & bigger the deeper into the game you got. Thanks for sharing.
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David Hladky
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In Descent each character has its own sack with everything he needs to play. It reduces the preparation time significantly. I suppose the same approach would work in Gloomhaven, unless you switch parties.
 
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Jan Meyberg
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mournful wrote:

If it's great, awesome. If it's a mess, well sometimes Kickstarter is a roll of the dice.


I HAVE to add Isaac made pretty clear at several occasions he HATES dice rolls ;-)

Honestly, I'd love to second the other playtester's opinion: I have seldom tested such a well-developed game, with such intense concern on balancing, variating gameplay, ... - and such a massive amount of stuff. BUT: This seems to be all necessary, as Isaac is going to provide us with a COMPLETE universe in a box.
Obviously, Gloomhaven could easily be expanded time after time, but Isaac tried to achieve the leviathan of an all-finished whole adventure world. He even refrained from adding tons of Kickstarter exclusives (which he could have pumped out in enormous quantities), as he tried to make this game COMPLETE in a single retail version.
In fact I don't nearly know if this has really been achieved as I saw only small parts during all the playtests, but what I saw helps me to keep hopes AND expectations high.

My only concern: How might I possibly manage to create the spare time needed to play such a juggernaut of a game?!
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Luke Jacobs
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meyberg wrote:

My only concern: How might I possibly manage to create the spare time needed to play such a juggernaut of a game?!


Quit job and send smaller humans and or pets to military school/miltary school for pets?

I too will be upping my time management skills if I want to get through even half of this.
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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I really, really, really hope Gloomhaven get's a lot of success to show those companies who sell us only half of a game and sell the rest through 15 expansions how it's done.
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Josh McDowell
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mrakomor wrote:
In Descent each character has its own sack with everything he needs to play. It reduces the preparation time significantly. I suppose the same approach would work in Gloomhaven, unless you switch parties.


Each character has his/her own thin box that holds all their cards. There should be room to also keep all your items in there as well. That way, you just dump the contents of the box, set up your deck, and go dungeon delving.
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Antonio Caciolli
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I wonder how Isaac have balanced the scenario difficulty in campaign mode versus single random scenario. I mean, in campaign mode the PC not only grown in level but also in gold and equipment having equipping more and more items during the whole campaign. In a single one shot scenario you create the PC with just the standard basic money so the available item will be less (especially at higher level)

I wonder if the scenario start being too difficult in random scenario mode or too simple in campaign

yes this is a question just for discussing a little bit more waiting for november :-D
 
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Luke Jacobs
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Floating World wrote:
I really, really, really hope Gloomhaven get's a lot of success to show those companies who sell us only half of a game and sell the rest through 15 expansions how it's done.


I wonder about that.

While I try to keep my expectations low, from what I've seen it's likely I'm going to enjoy it.

Where I'm concerned is retail. The box is enormous and heavy. I do not think I have ever held a game that is close to 19lbs.

Shelf space is a real issue in retail. And the campaign refers to a $100-$120 price tag. Considering the size of the box and the resultant costs for storage and shipping, I think that's a conservative estimate.

The reason companies sell games through multiple expansions is because that's the long term way to make money. Less risky to sell a $50 game, then a $30 expansion, then a $50 expansion, then a $30, than it is to try and sell that entire thing for $160 in an enormous box that forces other games off the shelf, without proof that the core mechanic has legs.

Also much easier to sell someone a $50 game than a $150 one.

Retail likes games that have a tail. I.e. expansions that keep people coming back for the base game.

Kickstarter allows absolutely insanely ambitious games like Gloomhaven to exist. I think it will be difficult for this to gain a foothold in retail. It fits a fairly specific niche. People who like legacy, who also like adventure games, who also want dungeon crawling in those adventure games, who also enjoy solitaire/mostly cooperative games, who also don't bat an eye at storing a giant 19lbs box and who have the disposable income to purchase this game.

I am one of those people. I'm guessing that many of us who backed it, have similar qualities.

I just see this as a tough sell to retail. Not as tough a sell as a box the size of two children standing side by side, costing $200 and labeled Ogre. But still difficult.


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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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mournful wrote:
[q="Floating World"]People who like legacy,


SO as not to scare people away from the game: i reaaaaaaallllyyyyy dislike legacy and I backed this game because Isac will be giving us a way to not ruin "MY PRECIOUS" components.
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