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Subject: Sea Fall support ships rss

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Thomas Robb
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If I have one of my ships at an island location that has already been explored (and say, has one Spice located there) and another player decides to raid that site,

can I use my ship as a support to that island location to remove one die from the raiding player's dice pool?

 
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Keith Pishnery
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Almost positive that support ships only support your own ship. I'm not sure what part of the rules you are reading would indicate anything close to what you are describing.

Edit: Oh I see what you might be referring to:
Quote:
Defending ships in the region. Each ship is considered a support
ship and usually removes one die unless it has an upgrade or ability
that allows it to remove more.


This might be more about raiding ships and Provinces (and possibly Colonies), but it's not spelled out very well.
 
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David desJardins
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thomasrobb wrote:
If I have one of my ships at an island location that has already been explored (and say, has one Spice located there) and another player decides to raid that site,

can I use my ship as a support to that island location to remove one die from the raiding player's dice pool?


Your question is already answered, as far as the base game rules, in the compiled Q&A thread:

Ships may defend against a raid in a region they control. So, if you have your ships in your home harbor, and someone raids your province, he would lose two dice as your defending ships act as support ships and remove a die each from his raid.

If you're asking about other situations that involve additional rules not in the base rulebook, then you should ask those specifically, with spoiler tags.
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JR Honeycutt
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thomasrobb wrote:

If I have one of my ships at an island location that has already been explored (and say, has one Spice located there) and another player decides to raid that site,

can I use my ship as a support to that island location to remove one die from the raiding player's dice pool?



If you control the region, yes. At the start of the game, the only region you can control is your home harbor.
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Thomas Robb
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thank you all

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David desJardins
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jayahre wrote:
If you control the region, yes. At the start of the game, the only region you can control is your home harbor.


Not to be too pedantic, but you control your home province. It is your ships in the harbor of that province that contribute to the defense of the province.

Just emphasizing the correct use of specific terms (I think).
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JR Honeycutt
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DaviddesJ wrote:
jayahre wrote:
If you control the region, yes. At the start of the game, the only region you can control is your home harbor.


Not to be too pedantic, but you control your home province. It is your ships in the harbor of that province that contribute to the defense of the province.

Just emphasizing the correct use of specific terms (I think).


Sorry, yes this is correct.

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head if the distinction comes into play in the game, but it might.
 
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Thomas Robb
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so control, then, also means you have your Province "marker/sticker" on anything you control?

for example, the home Province already has your Province marker/token on it to start the game
the islands, well, you might be there, but have not yet gained control and put one of your Province stickers on it

is that correct?
 
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David desJardins
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thomasrobb wrote:


so control, then, also means you have your Province "marker/sticker" on anything you control?

for example, the home Province already has your Province marker/token on it to start the game
the islands, well, you might be there, but have not yet gained control and put one of your Province stickers on it

is that correct?


The rules for controlling any region other than your home province aren't in the base rulebook. Are you asking for people to give you those rules now? They are not revealed at start, for a reason. If you disagree with that approach, I expect that if you wait someone might post the complete text of the rules so that you can read them before/without playing. But I'm not sure that belongs in this thread.
 
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Thomas Robb
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no, thank you David

if the rules from the base rule book are that you only control your Province, I am fine with that

I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss a rule

if new rules come out later in which I may control other things, I can wait - no problem

and I don't expect someone to tell me the rules from future games that have not been written in the base rule book

thanks again David


 
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Becq Starforged
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jayahre wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
jayahre wrote:
If you control the region, yes. At the start of the game, the only region you can control is your home harbor.


Not to be too pedantic, but you control your home province. It is your ships in the harbor of that province that contribute to the defense of the province.

Just emphasizing the correct use of specific terms (I think).


Sorry, yes this is correct.

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head if the distinction comes into play in the game, but it might.

Actually, it could make a difference for ship raiding. If you have two ships in your harbor, and an opponent raids one, can the other count as defending? If the harbor is "controlled", then the rules indicate that it can, but if the harbor isn't controlled, then the ships can't help each other -- unless the ship raiding rules (which I don't have access to, but the rules indicate the existence of) say otherwise.

On a similar note, if you have two ships in a deep sea space, and an opponent raids one, can the other count as defending, even though you don't control the region? (It feels to me as though it should work that way).

Edit:
You control your province (the only "region" you control at the start of the game). You also control your home harbor (the only "space" you control at the start of the game). Since you control you home harbor, ships would be able to defend each other there.
 
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David desJardins
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Becq wrote:
Actually, it could make a difference for ship raiding. If you have two ships in your harbor, and an opponent raids one, can the other count as defending? If the harbor is "controlled", then the rules indicate that it can, but if the harbor isn't controlled, then the ships can't help each other -- unless the ship raiding rules (which I don't have access to, but the rules indicate the existence of) say otherwise.

On a similar note, if you have two ships in a deep sea space, and an opponent raids one, can the other count as defending, even though you don't control the region? (It feels to me as though it should work that way).


I know it's traditional on BGG to complain about the vagueness and oversights in the rules regardless of what they actually say, but it seems to me you're going to new lengths by complaining about the ambiguity in the rules you haven't even unlocked yet.
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Tim Stack
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The rules don't really address 'control' per se as to what constitutes controlling a region. Even after you open a particular box (2nd chest I believe) ...


Spoiler (click to reveal)
... the rules don't even address who controls a colony. (Turns out it is who ever owns the colony and they continue control of said region into the next game if they end the game with that colony)
 
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Matt S
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tjstack wrote:
The rules don't really address 'control' per se as to what constitutes controlling a region. Even after you open a particular box (2nd chest I believe) ...


Spoiler (click to reveal)
... the rules don't even address who controls a colony. (Turns out it is who ever owns the colony and they continue control of said region into the next game if they end the game with that colony)


Actually they do.

Spoiler below.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
This is listed in Rule 18. The sticker that talks about Colonies and Governors expressly says who owns the colony. It says who owns the card is the Governor, and that the Governor controls the sea space on the island where the colony is located.
 
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Matt S
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Becq wrote:
Actually, it could make a difference for ship raiding. If you have two ships in your harbor, and an opponent raids one, can the other count as defending? If the harbor is "controlled", then the rules indicate that it can, but if the harbor isn't controlled, then the ships can't help each other -- unless the ship raiding rules (which I don't have access to, but the rules indicate the existence of) say otherwise.

On a similar note, if you have two ships in a deep sea space, and an opponent raids one, can the other count as defending, even though you don't control the region? (It feels to me as though it should work that way).


Spoiler

Spoiler (click to reveal)
As for the raiding other ships, it is directly answered, when you unlock rule 16. It specifically talks about if either attacker or defender having a support ship. Also the example that is part of the rule should help.

Remember we have two distinct things happening here. 1) Support from additional ships. 2) Support for control. Both will modify the dice pools for raids.
 
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Thomas Robb
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So back to my original question in this thread about support ships,

For game 1, I only control my Province and that is the only place I can use a support ship

Later in other games, I may be able to use a support ship for open sea raids (probably in same sea space I am assuming) and for some type of rule to help me IF I control a colony (per game rules at that time)

does this sound correct?
 
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Tim Stack
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mcs1213 wrote:
tjstack wrote:
The rules don't really address 'control' per se as to what constitutes controlling a region. Even after you open a particular box (2nd chest I believe) ...


Spoiler (click to reveal)
... the rules don't even address who controls a colony. (Turns out it is who ever owns the colony and they continue control of said region into the next game if they end the game with that colony)


Actually they do.

Spoiler below.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
This is listed in Rule 18. The sticker that talks about Colonies and Governors expressly says who owns the colony. It says who owns the card is the Governor, and that the Governor controls the sea space on the island where the colony is located.


Thank you ... we just could not find that anywhere in the rules.
 
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Thomas Robb
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thank you
all very helpful

 
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