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Eldritch Horror» Forums » Variants

Subject: 8 or 10 sided dice for attribute tests rss

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Tamas Szabadi
Hungary
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We are one of those who must have doing something wrong during every game and after 4 or 5 hours of play all of a sudden the luck of the dice is killing us. It happened too many times that we went into an attribute test with 5 dice to have 4 ones and a three, so we would like to try something to change this. I wouldn't mind if it would be a 1 hour game but for a game this long I don't like to loose on the dice, so I'm looking for some changes instead of stop playing this great game.

I would prefer a diceless variant, but I'm not brave enough to go that far and try to solve that, so I wonder is there anyone out there who already tried to use 8 or 10 sided dice instead of the official 6?

We already removed the hard mythos cards but after sorting all the cards the other day I noticed that there are a loads of cards we didn't even see yet because we just remove them automatically, so I would like to have another option.

Using the official 6 sided dice, there is a 33% chance of having a success in a test.

I was wondering if I would use an 8 sided dice with having 6-7-8 as a success, it would make it 37.5%, or using a 10 sided dice with 7-8-9-0 as a success, it would increase it to 40%. Of course this would make it necessary to change the cursed / blessed chances too.

So summarize it, what do you guys think about having the following change only for attribute tests? Is there anyone out there who already experimented with something similar?

6 sided chances:
Blessed (4-5-6): 50%
Normal (5-6): 33%
Cursed (6): 16.67%

8 sided chances:
Blessed (5-6-7-8): 50%
Normal (6-7-8): 37.5%
Cursed (7-8): 25%

10 sided chances:
Blessed (6-7-8-9-0): 50%
Normal (7-8-9-0): 40%
Cursed (8-9-0): 30%
 
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Antanas
United Kingdom
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I haven't tried or thought about it but I think it would make the game too easy. And do not forget, it's not supposed to be easy.
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In my opinion, failing is just a part of the game and is a component of the overall experience. Rolling against the odds creates tension and while you'll have those times where you roll a bunch of 1's, you'll have just as many times where you'll be rolling one die and scrape by with a success, or kick down the door with the Shotgun and roll a pile of 6's, destroying everything.

Eldritch is about chaos and the chaotic nature of the dice is an intentional aspect. It's the type of game that, win or lose, is an experience from beginning to end because of the stories that get created from your successes and failures.
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Jacob Schoberg
United States
Elkhorn
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Seems like a good way to mess up the balance of the game greatly. As others have said, it's supposed to be hard. Fail forward and all that.

It'd probably also make that investigator who is always cursed wayyyy too good.
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soak man
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I think you should do what you need to in order to have fun with the game that you purchased for your entertainment.

If that means changing the probability and scaling it to favor you, then do so.

But if you're asking if I would ever do this, my answer would be no. I think learning how to have fun while losing and also taking a loss with grace is an essential skill to have in the hobby. I also think the theme favors challenges and defying the odds.

I personally would rather see something new every game than remove things to be more likely to win as well, but the game IS winnable as is. Very much so. You just won't win every time, or even most times.

Try some different strategies. If you're newer to the game, it is likely that you have room for improvement. But you'll never know if you're getting better if you scale back the game to where it is no longer a challenge.
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Tamas Szabadi
Hungary
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Thanks for all,

Yeah, my question was exactly about this, will this make the game too easy? We don't have time to play it too frequently so I would not like to ruin it with making it too easy.

Maybe I should just get some new dice instead ... :)
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soak man
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Tobi wrote:
Thanks for all,

Yeah, my question was exactly about this, will this make the game too easy? We don't have time to play it too frequently so I would not like to ruin it with making it too easy.

Maybe I should just get some new dice instead ...


Superstition rules my table. We often change out dice that roll poorly for others, and I have one player that is convinced he must play booze-y Eldritch, otherwise we stand no chance.

Oddly enough, we DO often play/roll/draw better when he's drinking. whistle
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Chris Knapp
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It's your game and you can play it however you want, but I agree that failing is just a part of the game that adds to the tension.
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Tamas Szabadi
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soakman wrote:
Tobi wrote:
Thanks for all,

Yeah, my question was exactly about this, will this make the game too easy? We don't have time to play it too frequently so I would not like to ruin it with making it too easy.

Maybe I should just get some new dice instead ... :)


Superstition rules my table. We often change out dice that roll poorly for others, and I have one player that is convinced he must play booze-y Eldritch, otherwise we stand no chance.

Oddly enough, we DO often play/roll/draw better when he's drinking. :whistle:


Well, this is surely something I didn't try before, so maybe this will be the one to give a chance next time! Sounds like a great variant! :)
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soak man
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Tobi wrote:
soakman wrote:
Tobi wrote:
Thanks for all,

Yeah, my question was exactly about this, will this make the game too easy? We don't have time to play it too frequently so I would not like to ruin it with making it too easy.

Maybe I should just get some new dice instead ...


Superstition rules my table. We often change out dice that roll poorly for others, and I have one player that is convinced he must play booze-y Eldritch, otherwise we stand no chance.

Oddly enough, we DO often play/roll/draw better when he's drinking. whistle


Well, this is surely something I didn't try before, so maybe this will be the one to give a chance next time! Sounds like a great variant!


Just make sure you've got all the rules down first!
 
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Lewis
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soakman wrote:
Tobi wrote:
Thanks for all,

Yeah, my question was exactly about this, will this make the game too easy? We don't have time to play it too frequently so I would not like to ruin it with making it too easy.

Maybe I should just get some new dice instead ...


Superstition rules my table. We often change out dice that roll poorly for others, and I have one player that is convinced he must play booze-y Eldritch, otherwise we stand no chance.

Oddly enough, we DO often play/roll/draw better when he's drinking. whistle



Must.... sleeve.... cards...

The horror of booze spills... AAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
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Colin
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I think it would change things too much but in Dungeonquest (which is another game you lose a lot but the game is way shorter) to counteract the bad dice when you fail you gain a determination token. This could be traded for an extra dice on a test.So at least every cloud has a silver lining!
 
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Walter McCormick
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Ultimate Frog wrote:

Must.... sleeve.... cards...

The horror of booze spills... AAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!


Doesn't protect the board though. Sunspear will never be the same :-(
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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I'd say try it with your 8 sided dice variant and see how it goes!
 
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lhur goyf
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Well, I have also thought about ways to make the game more just.

How about using a deck of cards instead of using dice? The deck would include the dice rolls 1-6 in equal proportions. Whenever a player has to roll dice, he flips the top card(s) of the 'dice-deck' to determine the results. When the deck depletes, you simply reshuffle it.

Using this method, luck would remain in the game but long streaks of bad luck would be highly unlikely!

I haven't tried the method yet, so no idea how it would work. What do you think? Has anyone tried something like that?
 
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Andre Oliveira
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You are supposed to fail if you throw just one die, hence 33%.
2 dice has a success chance of (1 - (2/3)*(2/3)) =~ 56%
3 dice gets ~71%
4 dice get ~81%

With blessed we have 50% 75% 87,5% and 93,75% for 1/2/3/4 dice
With curse 16,6% 30% 42% 52% for 1/2/3/4 dice


Quote:
The numbers seems reasonable for regular throws.
Blessed is slightly better than throwing another die.
Curse is slightly less punishing than losing 2 dice.

A reasonable simplification is changing both to simply add or remove one die instead of modifying each die value by 1.


However Combat and tests with dice reduction are a mess - and they get messy if you factor cursed and blessed conditions.

Combat is reasonable due weapons having high modifiers - which is thematic - non combatants can roughly survive with a gun while combatants can just survive without a gun - only armed combatants are good at killing
However those -1 and -2 attribute tests are too widespread since forsaken lore.



Another way to go is to reduce cursed to affect only one die (your highest roll) - the chance of failure would be close to something like
(5/6)*((2/3)^(X-1)) where X is the number of dice for roughly 17% 44% 63% 75% //this isn't perfectly accurate but shows that great skill could overcome the curse malus.

Summarizing
Quote:
1 - Blessed and cursed are both too powerful - cursed in particular is akin to losing 2 points in each skill - in combat both have magnified effects due the sheer number of die involved
2 - Changing both to simply add or subtract one die is reasonable
3 - Alternatively you can nerf cursed to reduce one of your highest die - to make it possible to overcome it with a high skill


---------------------------


lhurgoyf wrote:
Well, I have also thought about ways to make the game more just.

How about using a deck of cards instead of using dice? The deck would include the dice rolls 1-6 in equal proportions. Whenever a player has to roll dice, he flips the top card(s) of the 'dice-deck' to determine the results. When the deck depletes, you simply reshuffle it.

Using this method, luck would remain in the game but long streaks of bad luck would be highly unlikely!

I haven't tried the method yet, so no idea how it would work. What do you think? Has anyone tried something like that?

Well you can have a streak after a combat (a test where you drew many cards) or just one of the investigator can draw 5 and 6.
 
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C David Dent
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In the game "Settler's of Catan" (barbarians and caravans expansion) there is a deck for handling the die rolls consisting of 36 cards to insure that every potential combo of 2 dice is covered. It insures an always curve-perfect results of the game.

You could do something similar, I suppose with decks with just a single die result printed on them.


 
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MC Shudde M'ell
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Tobi wrote:
It happened too many times that we went into an attribute test with 5 dice to have 4 ones and a three, so we would like to try something to change this.


Obviously, the game is telling you to play Skids O'Toole.

I'm also wondering if you've included the rules for Focus. Even if you don't own the Expansions that include Focus tokens, it's absurdly easy to proxy and can mitigate the bad rolls later in the game (and makes Charlie Kane even more useful).
 
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