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Subject: Why is this not getting the love? rss

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Brian Sherry
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Considering that the original is widely considered a classic, why is this reboot KS so sluggish. There is very little buzz here on BGG and it's not in the Hotness like Conan or Massive Darkness were. Any ideas?
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Martin Gallo
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Perhaps people think tower defense games are better on a screen than a board?
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Marco Signore
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All right, it's just five days into the campaign, but I find it very disappointing so far. Basically, all you do is pre-order a retail version with the basic pledge, and a retail version + expansion + another copy of the retail version with a few more tiles and six new missions if you spend a lot of money with the DL pledge.
I am a huge fan of the original game, and I pledged this one too, but unless something awesome (and I mean it) will be presented before the end of the campaign, most possibly I will drop and wait for the retail version next year.
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Allan Rodda
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Can't help that FFG and GW announced their split this week and people are panic-buying a lot of their games (ie their gaming money is going elsewhere).

Also the kickstarter isn't really that exciting so far, even the gameplay video in Monday's update was pretty lame.
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Chad Egbert
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Black Knight wrote:
Considering that the original is widely considered a classic, why is this reboot KS so sluggish. There is very little buzz here on BGG and it's not in the Hotness like Conan or Massive Darkness were. Any ideas?


Maybe part of it is because only computer renderings of the minis have been shown? Just guessing.
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Andrea Luciano
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Angra wrote:
All right, it's just five days into the campaign, but I find it very disappointing so far. Basically, all you do is pre-order a retail version with the basic pledge, and a retail version + expansion + another copy of the retail version with a few more tiles and six new missions if you spend a lot of money with the DL pledge.
I am a huge fan of the original game, and I pledged this one too, but unless something awesome (and I mean it) will be presented before the end of the campaign, most possibly I will drop and wait for the retail version next year.


I think you say this because of the silhouette we see on the Dark Legion Pledge summary, with a part of upcoming SGs. But it's not gonna be the same mini as in the corebox.
Here a com' who explain :

Quote:
those silhouettes are there with question marks because they're not duplicates of the core box models - just temporary until the sculpts come in - we will be giving some boosts of core box minis later but we have an equally large amount of extra figures planned first. Dice were one of the biggest requests as people like to have more than 3 per colour actually. The other items are not the same cardboard doors or bases.... Some people do want extra heroes - they have used them in the past in multiple versions of the game. So ignore the silhouettes think of them as more interesting question marks ;-)


Also, it's gonna be a lot more than juste a retail box + expansion, Modiphius announced about 400/500$ final value, maybe more for the big pledge.
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Shane
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I think as much of a "classic" as it is, for a lot of us it doesn't evoke as much nostalgia as something like HeroQuest. They were banking on people who were fans as kids in the 90s throwing money at the name, and launched without much in the way of gameplay videos, etc.

Creators have all the time in the world to prepare before hitting that "Launch" button. A publisher should never respond on the first day with "We'll have more information soon!" Have all of your information ready to go on day 1.

I, personally, saw some pretty graphics and a neat theme, on what essentially boiled down to yet another one vs. all game. And for that I've got Descent, The Others, and soon Conan. With nothing to show me that I should be excited, it was an easy pass.
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Andrea Luciano
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CoffeeGnerd wrote:
I, personally, saw some pretty graphics and a neat theme, on what essentially boiled down to yet another one vs. all game. And for that I've got Descent, The Others, and soon Conan. With nothing to show me that I should be excited, it was an easy pass.


A full co-op (and solo) mode is also plan for this 2nd edition.
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Tim Gordon
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Agree with Shane's comment: if you want the KS to succeed from the start, have all the info to hand from Day 1. Don't rely on just the 'Classic' legacy, provide a bit of pzazz to those who never knew what Mutant Chronicles/Doomtrooper was all about.

Anyway, 1,200+ backers and currently $140K for a $60K target?? How much love do you want??

As for me personally, I wish it all the best for really succeeding well, but I'm done with KickStarter - I've had some projects take way too long (the last is now 4 years overdue) and I'm burned out with all that faff.

One good thing here in this one: non-USA shipping sorted out already and clearly explained. That's a refreshing change.
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I'm not seeing any reason to back this.

Looks like there are no exclusives. So why wouldn't you wait for a cheaper price at retail.

(Note that this conclusion comes after a fairly quick review of the KS campaign).
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J P
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Misterboy wrote:
I'm not seeing any reason to back this.

Looks like there are no exclusives. So why wouldn't you wait for a cheaper price at retail.

(Note that this conclusion comes after a fairly quick review of the KS campaign).


I hear this a lot and I think it's kind of a strange way to look at things. Even if something is not labeled as "KS Exclusive" it does *not* mean that those items will be available in retail. Look at Cthulhu Wars. That came out 2 years ago and so far, NOTHING except the base game has made it to retail. They've also stated that it's very unlikely that any of the Glorantha: The Gods War expansions will make it to retail.

Also, look at Monolith's Conan game. Monolith has announced on Facebook and elsewhere that only a few of the *NON*-KS Exclusive add-ons will be coming to retail. This has a number of people upset because they thought they would have a chance to pick things up later.

Both of those Kickstarters were highly successful and still not everything that wasn't exclusive is going to come to retail.

The reality is that you never know what will happen, so if you have the money to spare and you really want something, you should get it while you can.

Edit: typos
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Becq Starforged
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I think a lot of it is that they botched the $149 pledge by including nothing in it to begin with. Even now, it *looks* as though it doesn't even include the expansion (because the expansion isn't unlocked yet), but apparently it includes the expansion just by it appearing on the list, despite it not having been unlocked? In that case, what is the significance of the dollar figure next to it, since unlocking it does nothing? Bottom line, they wanted to pad their stretch goal list as much as possible, did so by shifting things that they always intended to include in the pledges (which is fairly standard, I think), and went too far.

At some point, what's included in the $149 pledge will start looking to people as though its actually worth $149, and more pledges may start to come in. In the meantime, I suspect there are a number of people waiting to see what happens. Which also really kills momentum.

And yeah, the miniatures are on the whole nothing special by industry standards, and that's also probably hurting.
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Reggie P
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Black Knight wrote:
Considering that the original is widely considered a classic, why is this reboot KS so sluggish. There is very little buzz here on BGG and it's not in the Hotness like Conan or Massive Darkness were. Any ideas?


I think the Kickstarter is doing great for an IP with little to no name recognition outside of a very niche portion of the boardgaming community.

I have never backed a Kickstarter, and so I am waiting for the game to come to retail. I love the original game, and my plan is to pick up the base game, Brotherhood expansion, and any other things that look appealing at GenCon hopefully.
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Steven R
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Observations:
1. Fantasy themes seem to do better than Scifi.
2. Growing number of Kickstarters have gone bad via endless delays and no shows has soured potential backers.
3. Investors want a lot for backing rather than waiting for retail.

I fit into category #2...probably won't be backing any additional games and will wait for retail versions.
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Dan Ridge
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I'm suffering from KS miniature fatigue, no other reason than that.
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Brian Busha
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I'd love to hear more details about Co-op. The fact that it's taken this long has killed my enthusiasm a little bit.
 
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DancingFool wrote:
Misterboy wrote:
I'm not seeing any reason to back this.

Looks like there are no exclusives. So why wouldn't you wait for a cheaper price at retail.

(Note that this conclusion comes after a fairly quick review of the KS campaign).


I hear this a lot and I think it's kind of a strange way to look at things...


That's odd. I've backed more KS games than I care to admit and I've learned that it's by FAR the best way to look at things.
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Alexandre Dupuis
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I got the feeling that there's quite a lot of people who are awaiting to see what's going on with the development. Pretty sure things will pick up once that the playtest is done and that we have videos of how the game work and the awesomeness of the miniatures.
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M.C.Crispy
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Becq wrote:
I think a lot of it is that they botched the $149 pledge by including nothing in it to begin with. Even now, it *looks* as though it doesn't even include the expansion (because the expansion isn't unlocked yet), but apparently it includes the expansion just by it appearing on the list, despite it not having been unlocked? In that case, what is the significance of the dollar figure next to it, since unlocking it does nothing? Bottom line, they wanted to pad their stretch goal list as much as possible, did so by shifting things that they always intended to include in the pledges (which is fairly standard, I think), and went too far.

At some point, what's included in the $149 pledge will start looking to people as though its actually worth $149, and more pledges may start to come in. In the meantime, I suspect there are a number of people waiting to see what happens. Which also really kills momentum.

And yeah, the miniatures are on the whole nothing special by industry standards, and that's also probably hurting.
The two pledge levels differ in the following manner: the entry level pledge buys the game and any "standard" stretch goals, additional stretch goals become available as addons when unlocked; the higher tier pledge essentially pre-pays for all the addons that you could get for the entry level pledge and includes them as stretch goals even if they don't get unlocked (so you wouldn't be able to get them as addons for the entry level tier).

It's a bit odd and it's a classic Modiphius Entertainment KS structure: mainly smoke and mirrors, trying to appear that you're getting something when you really aren't.

Personally, I'm seriously considering pulling out of my higher tier pledge as there appears to be rather more design work going on with the game for something that should be essentially ready to manufacture.
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M.C.Crispy
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Grizzz wrote:
I got the feeling that there's quite a lot of people who are awaiting to see what's going on with the development. Pretty sure things will pick up once that the playtest is done and that we have videos of how the game work and the awesomeness of the miniatures.
Yeah, great designers, it's what attracted me in the first place. But man, they haven't got the game anywhere near finished from what I've seen - still trying to fix issues in the original game and introduce a solo system. My confidence if ebbing. Funny thing is, I know that if I don't buy it on KS, I'll never buy it retail, even if it does make it to the shops in some form.
 
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Tristan Brunet
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The brilliant Techno Bowl: Arcade Football Unplugged by Brent Spivey, though heavily documented (downloadable rules would help, though), has not even reached its 25,000$ funding threshold yet. Now THAT is a KS scandal.

As for Siege of the Citadel, I agree that the campaign is not well driven and could have gained more momentum by disclosing more informations from the get go. Especially about its hinted coop mode (since at its heart, Siege is semi-coop, so I wonder if there still is rivalry and treason between the corps in coop mode. Arcadia Quest could be seen as an inspiration here. In fact, its KS campaign could also be an inspiration).
 
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David Winters
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why do people back stuff on kickstarter?

It makes sense to wait for retail: get it less expensive, you get it right when you pay for it, and you get to read reviews first.

People generally back kickstarters to get exclusives they can't get elsewhere, to get value they can't get elsewhere, and to provide funding so a small project sees the light of day. If a game has a particularly interesting IP it also helps.

This project doesn't really meet any of those criteria, so it's understandable it's not going to go to the million dollar mark.

I think it would been better for them to set the initial funding goal at 165 and included the expansion in the larger pledge to begin with. Alternatively just don't have the larger pledge when you launch and add it in later in the campaign.
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M.C.Crispy
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Bookswinters wrote:
I think it would been better for them to set the initial funding goal at 165 and included the expansion in the larger pledge to begin with.
That's effectively what they did - but they did it smarter. By setting the funding at 60k with a low entry pledge they were able to attract those who'd be put off by a $150 entry level. At the same time they ensured that the expansion would be made by revealing it early - thus guaranteeing it as part of the Dark Legion pledge. Presumably, the funding level at which they revealed the expansion was the "true" funding level of the campaign.

I expect that - once people have taken time to do the maths on the cost of addons vs. a Dark Legion pledge - we'll see significant conversion from Doom Trooper to Dark Legion and that'll provide a late project uplift. But sometimes I think Modiphius KS projects are a bit too clever for their own good: they leave me a little bit "uncomfortable" (cf. Thunderbirds where they risked creation of a partial expansion when they split the expansion across multiple Stretch Goals)

If is anything to go by, KS backers will get their hands on the expansion a long time before it hits retail. That should count for something I would think. But maybe they won't do that this time
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Bookswinters wrote:

I think it would been better for them to set the initial funding goal at 165 and included the expansion in the larger pledge to begin with.


They already did that. If the founding was ended with 60k, the people who pledge Dark Legion pledge would get the expansion.

From an update today: "To be clear: Dark Legion Pledges already get the Brotherhood Expansion as part of their pledge. Once we unlock the $165,000 goal, the Brotherhood Expansion will be available to Doomtrooper backers as an Add On, and further goals will be revealed."

The problem is that this is FAaaaaaaaaar from be clear. The 165k stretch goal is for allow the expansion to be an add-on.

This was the most excited KS that I pledge this year but I'm really disappointed about how the campaign is been run.
They should clarify (as it is clear for the base game) all the content that it is included in the Dark Legion pledge; including all the elements that the expansion content.
Like all the minis-based KS, big letters with the number of minis in the Dark Legion pledge would help.

Also, they need to finish the full co-op rules and provide a video about how is this going to be played.

Finally, a video from a reviewer would help a lot.

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Andreas W
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What would really help also is a round table gameplay/interview video with the designers. That would boost my confidence in the project big time!

Edit: And some signs from well known reviewers/bloggers who has had the chance to try it out. It seems to me that they have not come that far yet?
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