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Subject: U.S. median income posts highest gains since 60's rss

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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/13/the-m...

Not good news for people who think the President has a lot of influence on such things and hate Obama to the point where they have built a fantasy world view where he has destroyed America.
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Erik Henry
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Yes, but they won't buy those numbers. Data doesn't matter anymore. They're convinced the government is fudging any numbers that look at all positive.

And those global temperature records that we keep setting are bogus too.
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J
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Thanks Obama!
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J.D. Hall
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Certainly hasn't come my way yet.
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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remorseless1 wrote:
Certainly hasn't come my way yet.
Your annual review was disappointing. Work smarter, AND harder.
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Andy Beaton
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remorseless1 wrote:
Certainly hasn't come my way yet.


But your boss and your boss's boss get 30% raises, so on average, you're all doing great!
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Eddy Richards
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aiabx wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Certainly hasn't come my way yet.


But your boss and your boss's boss get 30% raises, so on average, you're all doing great!


Median = the point where half the people earn above, and half below, this amount. So your bosses getting a raise doesn't change the median.

In a sequence 1,2,3,4,100, the median is 3.
In a sequence 1,2,3,4,1000 the median is still 3.

The only way for a median to increase is for at least some of the people in the bottom half of the scale to improve their position. This doesn't mean that everyone has improved, and some people could be worse off. But it's a more useful indicator than the arithmetic mean (the average you refer to).
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TheChin! wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Certainly hasn't come my way yet.
Your annual review was disappointing. Work smarter, AND harder.

Nah. He was not amused when I took a leak on his desk. Some people just don't have a sense of humor.
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Erik Henry
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Ed_the_Red wrote:
aiabx wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Certainly hasn't come my way yet.


But your boss and your boss's boss get 30% raises, so on average, you're all doing great!


Median = the point where half the people earn above, and half below, this amount. So your bosses getting a raise doesn't change the median.

In a sequence 1,2,3,4,100, the median is 3.
In a sequence 1,2,3,4,1000 the median is still 3.

The only way for a median to increase is for at least some of the people in the bottom half of the scale to improve their position. This doesn't mean that everyone has improved, and some people could be worse off. But it's a more useful indicator than the arithmetic mean (the average you refer to).

Although, strictly, if his boss and his boss's boss both get 30% raises and he gets nothing, the median (of all the data points we have) has increased by 30%--assuming they were both making more than him to begin with.
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Mike Stiles
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Erik17 wrote:
Ed_the_Red wrote:
aiabx wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Certainly hasn't come my way yet.


But your boss and your boss's boss get 30% raises, so on average, you're all doing great!


Median = the point where half the people earn above, and half below, this amount. So your bosses getting a raise doesn't change the median.

In a sequence 1,2,3,4,100, the median is 3.
In a sequence 1,2,3,4,1000 the median is still 3.

The only way for a median to increase is for at least some of the people in the bottom half of the scale to improve their position. This doesn't mean that everyone has improved, and some people could be worse off. But it's a more useful indicator than the arithmetic mean (the average you refer to).

Although, strictly, if his boss and his boss's boss both get 30% raises and he gets nothing, the median (of all the data points we have) has increased by 30%--assuming they were both making more than him to begin with.


Since the sample size is several million, instead of 3 this isn't an issue :p
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Steve Cates
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Considering it's dropped so much and we've printed so much money it was bound to happen eventually. Median Incomes are seeing great gains in Venezuela too.
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ironcates wrote:
Considering it's dropped so much and we've printed so much money it was bound to happen eventually. Median Incomes are seeing great gains in Venezuela too.


I saw the article but didn't bother reading it. As you suggest, the word "gain" is relative to where it's beginning measurement is. This may be hard for the casual reader or the ideologue who revere's Obama and all the things he represents, but it gets real on the ground. So here's an example -

* 2008 citizen A is making $50k per year as an IT manager.

* 2009 he has lost that job and now works part time at Wendy's making about $9K per year.

* 2015 he has advanced to shift leader and asst manager at Wendy's earning $27K per year.

* Measuring from his 2009 earnings to present he has seen a gain of 300% in his yearly earnings.

Victory Lap. Obama Legacy. I'll have a triple cheese burger with fries please.
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Eddy Richards
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DWTripp wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Considering it's dropped so much and we've printed so much money it was bound to happen eventually. Median Incomes are seeing great gains in Venezuela too.


I saw the article but didn't bother reading it. As you suggest, the word "gain" is relative to where it's beginning measurement is. This may be hard for the casual reader or the ideologue who revere's Obama and all the things he represents, but it gets real on the ground. So here's an example -

* 2008 citizen A is making $50k per year as an IT manager.

* 2009 he has lost that job and now works part time at Wendy's making about $9K per year.

* 2015 he has advanced to shift leader and asst manager at Wendy's earning $27K per year.

* Measuring from his 2009 earnings to present he has seen a gain of 300% in his yearly earnings.

Victory Lap. Obama Legacy. I'll have a triple cheese burger with fries please.


And just think, you could (and should) apply the same critical reasoning to graphs of, let's say, global temperatures.
 
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Shawn Fox
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These numbers are just being faked by Obama to try to win the election for the Democrats.
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Mike Stiles
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Well that narrative developed quickly!
 
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ironcates wrote:
Considering it's dropped so much and we've printed so much money it was bound to happen eventually. Median Incomes are seeing great gains in Venezuela too.

There's just a teeny difference between us and them. Their inflation rate is 1500% and ours is 1%. But don't let that get in the way of your narrative. Yeah. We're just like Venezuela.

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Ed_the_Red wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Considering it's dropped so much and we've printed so much money it was bound to happen eventually. Median Incomes are seeing great gains in Venezuela too.


I saw the article but didn't bother reading it. As you suggest, the word "gain" is relative to where it's beginning measurement is. This may be hard for the casual reader or the ideologue who revere's Obama and all the things he represents, but it gets real on the ground. So here's an example -

* 2008 citizen A is making $50k per year as an IT manager.

* 2009 he has lost that job and now works part time at Wendy's making about $9K per year.

* 2015 he has advanced to shift leader and asst manager at Wendy's earning $27K per year.

* Measuring from his 2009 earnings to present he has seen a gain of 300% in his yearly earnings.

Victory Lap. Obama Legacy. I'll have a triple cheese burger with fries please.


And just think, you could (and should) apply the same critical reasoning to graphs of, let's say, global temperatures.


I read it. Essentially it's a campaign ad for Hillary Clinton. What irt says is that last year Citizen A's as a sector (an unattributed middle class group?) made on average a couple thousand more than they did the year before. No mention of other years or how many people remained in Citizen A income levels. Then it bestowed more rhetoric on the * poverty rate * dropping by 1.something%. Not mentioning that the so-called poverty rate had skyrocketed since BO took office.

So my takeaway is that the people remaining in the diminishing middle class which has been gutted over the last 8 years are making a couple grand more than they were in 2015. I will point out that while we supposedly have no inflation that almost every category of consumer goods and food have risen in cost. Even electronics seems to be leveling out while food has grown increasingly expensive - except eggs which have rebounded in supply since that chicken thing.

I'm no economist and even though there may be some here I doubt there's any good ones posting in RSP. The good ones reside behind paywalls and don't have time to fuck around trying to do gothca's by comparing AGW bullshit to poverty rates and what code monkeys in San Jose make. The best way to understand whether a nation is doing well economically is (I think) by assessing how many who are employable can find jobs that are at least within telescope distance of their skill levels. I don't think we're in the tank but I know the last 8 years and particulalrly the last 6 just ruined the economic stability of 90 million Americans who no longer work. YMMV
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J
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ironcates wrote:
Considering it's dropped so much and we've printed so much money it was bound to happen eventually. Median Incomes are seeing great gains in Venezuela too.

The stat is adjusted for inflation, so the printing money thing doesn't seem germane.
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This good news about the economy is just awful.
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jmilum wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Considering it's dropped so much and we've printed so much money it was bound to happen eventually. Median Incomes are seeing great gains in Venezuela too.

The stat is adjusted for inflation, so the printing money thing doesn't seem germane.


Would the change in the legalization of gay marriage factor into this? ~5% of the pop, and say 1-2% filing paperwork and changing their tax status would cause a sizable change in household numbers. Obviously it's been going on for years but its a demographics shift nonetheless if you look at post 08. I'll assume that same sex couples occurred in equal rates since the 90s but their legal status shift has been a more recent development. I really wish they would use individual incomes instead of households because couples and the % of married people isn't a consistent number over the years.
 
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49xjohn wrote:

This good news about the economy is just awful.


It's fine for people with jobs or who are getting income from retirement, etc. Not so much for those forced onto food stamps and other federal handouts. Unless you're a Syrian refugee, then you get a car, and apartment, $about $800 a month, food stamps, free educations and you move to the front of the health care line. I should know, Idaho has more Syrian refugees than California and New York combined. That's because the celebs and elite who call us non-Hillary supporters all racists and -phobes absolutely don't want those dirty Muslims living down the street from them.

Check out the unemployment rate for black youths between 18-30 and then cast that harsh scenario against the article.
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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In another couple years we'll be up to 1995 levels!!!

Thanks, Obama!
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Ah, I heard this on the radio today.

I don't think measuring gains is necessarily super meaningful here.

Personally, I'd like to see a graph of PPP-adjusted median income in the United States over time for this one. It's nice that the trend ticked back upwards -- I'd certainly like median income to not stagnate, as people point towards above, as that indicates that the Gini coefficient in the USA is getting worse. But it's one year...

(And really, the peak difference between '99 and '07 is pretty minimal, it's $500. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N if you'd like to see a little bit of data.)
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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I certainly don't feel I'm better off than 8 or 4 years ago... I am making more money but feel I'm still chasing the cost of living.
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Shawn Fox
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StevenE wrote:
I certainly don't feel I'm better off than 8 or 4 years ago... I am making more money but feel I'm still chasing the cost of living.

I'm a lot better off, the 8 years of Obama's presidency have been the best 8 years in my life financially.

I don't credit that to Obama, however, and neither should anyone else blame Obama for how badly they have done. The president, whether republican or democrat, has very little influence over the economy.
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