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Subject: FCM food chain magnate or scythe rss

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Ste M
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PleAse could you help me choose one?
I like FCM because seems very cutthroat and have a lot of interactions and seems to have a infinite replay ability even if I know it could be hit table less.
I like scythe coz the component are cool even if there is not a lot to f player interaction from what I understood.
 
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Matt Brown
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There's area control going on in Scythe so it isn't that devoid of interaction. Plus, you can unlock the ability to gain stuff based on other player's actions. You can only max out 2 points for combat unless you are a specific faction so combat is on the lower side. I've only played both once, but FCM felt more intriguing since it feels so different from everything else.
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Ste M
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Thanks that's exactly what too I have felt. Even if my friend got influenced by the artwork and components haha. But in terms of cutthroat and replay ability what would you choose to play again?
 
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Shane Larsen
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The level of interaction in FCM is nearly visceral. In the first few rounds, it's less apparent. But as each game matures, it's won and lost by the players' ability to outmaneuver the other players at the table.

And I agree with Matt. FCM is a unique experience. One of the smartest designs I've experienced. Top notch and highly interactive in the best ways.
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Kevin D.
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My answer is both, plus as many other Splotters as you can get your hands on.

But really if I'm picking one it's FCM every time. I enjoy Scythe, it's beautiful and has engaging puzzles in it, but I think my rating for it will drop over time. FCM sits at the top of my ratings at 9.5 and I don't see it dropping anytime soon, even if my plays of it have died down.
 
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Alam Muammar
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If you don't care about spending money, you could pick FCM. Why? because the value for the components is not worth your money. looks like a prototype game, it seem the they cut the cost on art to produce the game but make the game pricey. I sense something isn't right with this kind of attitude from a game publisher.
Stonemaier put a high standard on how the game should be produce. Gameplay, components, artwork, and they put decent price for that high quality. Maybe It's only me, but I felt being rip off buying FCM.
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Ian Kissell
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I like Scythe far better. FCM is much too wonky for me, as it can be quite hard to really predict the consequences of some of your actions.

I would say, if you want a faster playing game, go Scythe. If you are looking for a longer (2.5-3 hour) game, go FCM.
 
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Andrew Smith
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These are very different games so it depends on what you and your buddies look for in a game.

FCM has some lovely box art, the theme is great but the components are 1970s in their quality. But the gameplay is incredible. It is tense and mean. But it's too mean for some people.

Personally, I love FCM.

Andrew
 
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Matt Brown
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alam1000malam wrote:
If you don't care about spending money, you could pick FCM. Why? because the value for the components is not worth your money. looks like a prototype game, it seem the they cut the cost on art to produce the game but make the game pricey. I sense something isn't right with this kind of attitude from a game publisher.
Stonemaier put a high standard on how the game should be produce. Gameplay, components, artwork, and they put decent price for that high quality. Maybe It's only me, but I felt being rip off buying FCM.


Maybe you should understand that Scythe was given a KS and hence Stonemaier knew what kind of print run to do versus a small company who always puts out small print runs and thus the higher price. Simply put, Stonemaier is in a much better position to cover the higher cost of a larger print run.
 
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Shane Larsen
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matthean wrote:
alam1000malam wrote:
If you don't care about spending money, you could pick FCM. Why? because the value for the components is not worth your money. looks like a prototype game, it seem the they cut the cost on art to produce the game but make the game pricey. I sense something isn't right with this kind of attitude from a game publisher.
Stonemaier put a high standard on how the game should be produce. Gameplay, components, artwork, and they put decent price for that high quality. Maybe It's only me, but I felt being rip off buying FCM.


Maybe you should understand that Scythe was given a KS and hence Stonemaier knew what kind of print run to do versus a small company who always puts out small print runs and thus the higher price. Simply put, Stonemaier is in a much better position to cover the higher cost of a larger print run.

For me, the value in a Splotter game is not found in its components. It's found in the remarkable design of the game itself. The mechanisms in FCM are unique, innovative, clever. It's outstanding that a game with so much depth and so many different paths to victory can remain balanced, interesting, and fun every time. It's the kind of game I could play hundreds of times and likely learn something new each session.

Scythe, on the other hand, is a good game. It does some cool things and definitely looks outstanding. But I could see myself growing tired of playing it after a handful of sessions. And they've already got expansions lined up for that.

In summary, if you want a deeply rewarding and endlessly replayable game that looks decent, get FCM. If you want an incredibly beautiful game that plays decent, get Scythe.

I personally will take great game play over great components every time. But that's me.
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Eric Gergotz
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You answered it in your opening post. Food Chain Magnate. You stated the gameplay as a positive and Scythe's positive was the components. Gameplay wins over components all the time.

Personal opinion, FCM is the better choice. Scythe was one of the most boring game experiences I've ever had. I couldn't wait for it to be over. FCM I played after Scythe and was scared due to the hype, but it was a fantastic game.
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Evan Pulgino
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thedacker wrote:
matthean wrote:
alam1000malam wrote:
If you don't care about spending money, you could pick FCM. Why? because the value for the components is not worth your money. looks like a prototype game, it seem the they cut the cost on art to produce the game but make the game pricey. I sense something isn't right with this kind of attitude from a game publisher.
Stonemaier put a high standard on how the game should be produce. Gameplay, components, artwork, and they put decent price for that high quality. Maybe It's only me, but I felt being rip off buying FCM.


Maybe you should understand that Scythe was given a KS and hence Stonemaier knew what kind of print run to do versus a small company who always puts out small print runs and thus the higher price. Simply put, Stonemaier is in a much better position to cover the higher cost of a larger print run.

For me, the value in a Splotter game is not found in its components. It's found in the remarkable design of the game itself. The mechanisms in FCM are unique, innovative, clever. It's outstanding that a game with so much depth and so many different paths to victory can remain balanced, interesting, and fun every time. It's the kind of game I could play hundreds of times and likely learn something new each session.

Scythe, on the other hand, is a good game. It does some cool things and definitely looks outstanding. But I could see myself growing tired of playing it after a handful of sessions. And they've already got expansions lined up for that.

In summary, if you want a deeply rewarding and endlessly replayable game that looks decent, get FCM. If you want an incredibly beautiful game that plays decent, get Scythe.

I personally will take great game play over great components every time. But that's me.


Excellent points. Components are secondary if the game is great. I personally love the clean, retro look and feel of FCM, but understand why a lot of gamers are turned off. I think there is an over emphasis on component quality anyway.

Splotter is very small company, the price you are paying is the cost of game development. I will always vote for Splotter to spend more time on game dev then components, because their track record for making amazing, interactive games is excellent. I also don't mind paying the higher cost because their games hold their value over time.

Oh and go with FCM. It is light years better than Scythe.
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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alam1000malam wrote:
If you don't care about spending money, you could pick FCM. Why? because the value for the components is not worth your money. looks like a prototype game, it seem the they cut the cost on art to produce the game but make the game pricey. I sense something isn't right with this kind of attitude from a game publisher.

Splotter is a small, independent publisher whose audience is in the thousands of players, and print runs of perhaps 1000 copies or so. Probably less, given previous experiences with their games selling out and becoming available again. They don't get discounts for anything at those numbers: not for the bits, not for the cardboard, not for the artist. They also attend Spiel every year, in a fairly big booth, which doesn't come cheap either. And at the end of it all, they might even want to make some money from it. And apparently it's all been worth it, given that they've been in business since 1999 or so. How many publishers catering to an audience like Splotter does can make the same claim?

Quote:
Stonemaier put a high standard on how the game should be produce. Gameplay, components, artwork, and they put decent price for that high quality. Maybe It's only me, but I felt being rip off buying FCM.

You are comparing a publisher whose initial print run of the game consisted of ~8000 units or so, with a largely known order portfolio; and will likely sell twice or thrice that easily in the next few years. FCM had none of these things, in fact was a highly unusual success for Splotter, given that most other games of theirs with the exception of The Great Zimbabwe take years to sell out from the initial print run. (TGZ took about 6 months.) Even the now eagerly-awaited Indonesia took 5 years or so.

I don't believe in paying extra because a certain author developed the game. You don't get a discount when (s)he produces a turd, either. What you're seeing with Splotter and Stonemaier is simply economy of scale.
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Matt Watkins
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For me it comes down to "Will I be able to bring this game to the table?" I game with a regular group doing mid-to-heavy games (e.g. Caverna), but I think FCM would be a tough sell. It's clearly brilliant and unique, with surprising and continuously evolving gameplay strategies. Scythe, however, is beautiful to look at, has some minor innovations, has a snappy tempo, isn't really all that "mean", is a good length, and fits comfortably within well-established game paradigms. I'll own Scythe because I think I'll have no problem dropping it on the table for my regular group to play. And it's a fun, easy-to-enjoy game.

FCM is undoubtedly the more interesting game for pure gameplay, mostly because all of its mechanics are pretty radical. When I start a sentence "FCM is like..." I have no idea how to finish it, except with "...nothing else." I love it, but I think I'd end up demoing it for my group, then never opening the box again.
 
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Matt Brown
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FCM is tableau porn. Not only are you adding in cards to build your org chart and comboing things, you rebuild that chart every turn. More plays will make me figure out if it isn't my favorite tableau builder and see if it is a worthy successor to El Grande.

I and others across a single play in different games were questioning the balance of secret goals in Scythe. The guy who got 6 stars said he felt like all he had to do was play the game and he would earn them. I felt like I would have to kick and punch my way to complete one of them.
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Jeffrey Speer
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Honestly, I like both games well enough, but I feel that FCM makes for a better game that feels better when you play it.

Try the online implementation of FCM first, if you really like it, take the plunge.
 
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Sam Hillier
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FCM is a far better game. The interaction is deeper than Scythe, the engine building is deeper than Scythe, and the replayability is much higher than Scythe. No two games of FCM are ever the same, whereas Scythe gets very same-y.

They're about the same complexity to learn, rules wise, but I find the decisions in FCM to be much more interesting than in Scythe. FCM's simple rules have great depth, whereas Scythe's don't.

Really, for me, there is nothing Scythe does better than FCM (except look pretty).
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Maarten D. de Jong
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matthean wrote:
... and see if it is a worthy successor to El Grande.

A worthy successor to what??!
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Matt Watkins
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Daybreak wrote:
They're about the same complexity to learn, rules wise, but I find the decisions in FCM to be much more interesting than in Scythe. FCM's simple rules have great depth, whereas Scythe's don't.


This is true, but rule depth can be a liability too. In FCM, you have to resign yourself to not knowing what the hell is going on for 2-3 games before you start to get some handle on tactics. You need the "whole game" picture before you can formulate anything like a progressive strategy. All of FCM's systems interlock beautifully, but that means you can't learn the game piecemeal. You'd have to have an inexperienced group commit to at least 2-3 sessions for it to get any traction, and in a group like mine that meets weekly, but rotates through a selection of games, that would be a hard sell, particularly since the board tiles really are unattractive visually.

Note: I don't think there's a good excuse for the ugliness of the boards. The cards and restaurant and advertising tiles all are appealing, and I get that it has to be a grid, but why not have weedy vacant lots rather than white empty spaces? Roads with curves and sidewalks? Bar or juice stand graphics along with the drink icons? It could look like a neighborhood instead of an abstract math problem.
 
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Shane Larsen
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matthean wrote:
FCM is tableau porn...More plays will make me figure out if it isn't my favorite tableau builder and see if it is a worthy successor to El Grande.

I'm confused. Do you classify El Grande as a tableau builder?
 
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Ste M
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Omg.
Thanks for so much comments. The things, from lack of comments, escalated quickly.
I've just bought FCM. And I will play it friday evening.
What it dragged me off the fence was all the positive comments about gameplay and the majority of hints towards that directions furthermore the fact that the last copy of scythe in Italy is a KS one at 100 €.

Many thanks to everyone!!
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Matt Brown
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cymric wrote:
matthean wrote:
... and see if it is a worthy successor to El Grande.

A worthy successor to what??!


thedacker wrote:
matthean wrote:
FCM is tableau porn...More plays will make me figure out if it isn't my favorite tableau builder and see if it is a worthy successor to El Grande.

I'm confused. Do you classify El Grande as a tableau builder?


No, but both do area control. Yes, they are different, but I feel as if El Grande does lack in the central strategy area. At least in terms of the base game. I want to try out the expansions to see how it goes from there. And yes, even if there is a central strategy it doesn't mean the game can't be good. It is my #2 game currently. There is still the intrigue of pulling it off and more so when other players are trying to pull it off as well.
 
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chris thatcher
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From what I gather, myself included. No one uses the El grande expansions because the Base game is perfect.

I also don't see a correlation between the two games really.
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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matthean wrote:
No, but both do area control.

El Grande is area majorities. That's a variant of area control, but it plays out in completely different ways than 'just' area control. Also FCM has a strong and flexible logistics component, whereas with El Grande only adjacency to the King region is of interest. That you really like El Grande is fine, honestly. But I think it is neither useful nor sensible to go about comparing it to FCM.

Quote:
I want to try out the expansions to see how it goes from there.

They won't accomplish what you're after.
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Ian Kissell
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Sychosymatic wrote:
You answered it in your opening post. Food Chain Magnate. You stated the gameplay as a positive and Scythe's positive was the components. Gameplay wins over components all the time.

Personal opinion, FCM is the better choice. Scythe was one of the most boring game experiences I've ever had. I couldn't wait for it to be over. FCM I played after Scythe and was scared due to the hype, but it was a fantastic game.


I think that saying that Scythe is all components is EXTREMELY unfair. The components and production certainly add to the experience, a lesson that Splotter needs to learn, but there is a great game there (maybe not the 15th best game of all time, but a great game). FCM far outstays its welcome in my book.

Also, I don't think I will ever understand why Splotter insists on doing such small print runs which keep prices high.
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