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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » General

Subject: I can't wrap my head around wounds having a cost of 0. rss

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Chad Wallace
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I know that the Dark City rules clarified that wounds have a cost of zero, but I can't wrap my head around that idea. To me, that makes wounds less harmful. For example, in a deck built around Spiderman and friends, a wound having a cost of 0 doesn't mess up your flow of drawing cheap cards. Thematically, I think the wound should stop your flow of drawing cards because a wound should be slowing you down and hindering your abilities. That's just my thoughts on it, but I would love to hear other peoples thoughts on this.
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Adam Steele
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I think the fundamental problem you're missing is that, even with a cost of 0, they are slowing you down. If the wound simply wasn't there, the card you draw from Spider-Man would be better instead of a useless wound.
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Andrew Brown
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Null Field wrote:
Not sure I understand your question, but wounds clog up your hand. Their cost doesn't factor into it. You gain a wound, put it in your discard pile and then you might draw it instead of a useful card. Then you have to use the special rules on the wound card (or special character powers) to KO the wound from your deck.
i think Chad means that his original interpretation is that, since Wounds have no cost, using a Spider-man draw ability 'draw the top card if it costs 2 or less' would stop as soon as you hit a wound, rather than draw it

Chad doesn't seem to be asking a question about the rules at all, merely commenting on that fact that Wounds = cost-0 is a bit underpowered than Wounds = no cost
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Rome Knows Nothing
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Maybe a new Wound card could play out that you arent allowed to draw cards while in your hand...something like that. Pardon me if this is already there.
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Mike Runnestrand
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I can't wrap my head around the fact that you can't wrap your head around it.
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Mark Blasco

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If I remember correctly, there are cards that require you to KO cards that cost 1 or more, or discard cards that cost 1 or more, and by making wounds cost 0, you wouldn't be able to discard or KO those cards.
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Andrew McGorman
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but it does stop your spiderman combos... you draw it and then you dont have another spiderman to draw the next card, right?
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jack delavert
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Kaiowas05 wrote:
but it does stop your spiderman combos... you draw it and then you dont have another spiderman to draw the next card, right?

Correct
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Jem
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Conversely, given that many people see Spider-Man as quite weak and Spidey-based decks as being difficult to build up attack with, having Wounds block the card draw engine would just nerf Spidey further.
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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As said above, there are situations that refer to the cost of a card. Like Thanos for instance. His ability takes away a card of cost 1 or higher.

If you let him take a wound away, he becomes easier. There is a card (forgot which one) that lets you KO a card and then get attack\recruit based on its cost. You want wounds to give you more in that aspect?




Overall, the Spidey example really isn't that big of a deal. As mentioned, it will stop your chain anyway. So you still take something from it. But giving it any other number of cost could tip the scale in a lot of other situation.
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Ian Simpson
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
As said above, there are situations that refer to the cost of a card. Like Thanos for instance. His ability takes away a card of cost 1 or higher.

If you let him take a wound away, he becomes easier. There is a card (forgot which one) that lets you KO a card and then get attack\recruit based on its cost. You want wounds to give you more in that aspect?




Overall, the Spidey example really isn't that big of a deal. As mentioned, it will stop your chain anyway. So you still take something from it. But giving it any other number of cost could tip the scale in a lot of other situation.


But that would only apply if Wounds were given a cost value that is not zero. The OP is arguing that Wounds should have no cost value at all, and therefore that any ability that checks on the cost of a Wound card should automatically fail.

So for Thanos, you would not be able to discard the Wound because it doesn't have a cost and therefore does not cost > 1. The card you mentioned might not allow you to KO the Wound at all if it requires the card to have a cost, which actually means the Wound is more persistent.
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Chris Lawson
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MrPyro wrote:
But that would only apply if Wounds were given a cost value that is not zero. The OP is arguing that Wounds should have no cost value at all, and therefore that any ability that checks on the cost of a Wound card should automatically fail.

So for Thanos, you would not be able to discard the Wound because it doesn't have a cost and therefore does not cost > 1. The card you mentioned might not allow you to KO the Wound at all if it requires the card to have a cost, which actually means the Wound is more persistent.

Finally, someone understands the point the OP is making!

If one way or the other is "better" is a matter of opinion. But that's what this thread is about, a matter of opinion.
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Rome Knows Nothing
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heretek wrote:
Kaiowas05 wrote:
but it does stop your spiderman combos... you draw it and then you dont have another spiderman to draw the next card, right?

Correct


Unless you have two spidermen to draw 2 cards...if a wound sits atop your deck and youre not able to draw it, it would keep your drawing at a hold. I think thats what the OP is looking for...something to cap the deck.
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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MrPyro wrote:

But that would only apply if Wounds were given a cost value that is not zero. The OP is arguing that Wounds should have no cost value at all, and therefore that any ability that checks on the cost of a Wound card should automatically fail.


Then OP needs to remember that the average player of this game is not that fluent in CS and might not understand the difference between 0 and Null.


This would force huge FAQs and constant frustration from new players that would only make things more complicated.


In addition, it would require rephrasing every single card carefully to avoid things like "if the cost of the card is not greater than 1" to be "if the card has a cost and it's higher than 1 " etc


In other words, the game would become too complex for its own good and the designers clearly wanted the game too be as easy as possible to learn.
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Jem
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
In addition, it would require rephrasing every single card carefully to avoid things like "if the cost of the card is not greater than 1" to be "if the card has a cost and it's higher than 1 " etc

"has a printed cost of/below/above X" would do the job just fine, as it does for attack and recruit values.
 
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David A
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MrPyro wrote:
GrandMasterFox wrote:
As said above, there are situations that refer to the cost of a card. Like Thanos for instance. His ability takes away a card of cost 1 or higher.

If you let him take a wound away, he becomes easier. There is a card (forgot which one) that lets you KO a card and then get attack\recruit based on its cost. You want wounds to give you more in that aspect?




Overall, the Spidey example really isn't that big of a deal. As mentioned, it will stop your chain anyway. So you still take something from it. But giving it any other number of cost could tip the scale in a lot of other situation.


But that would only apply if Wounds were given a cost value that is not zero. The OP is arguing that Wounds should have no cost value at all, and therefore that any ability that checks on the cost of a Wound card should automatically fail.

So for Thanos, you would not be able to discard the Wound because it doesn't have a cost and therefore does not cost > 1. The card you mentioned might not allow you to KO the Wound at all if it requires the card to have a cost, which actually means the Wound is more persistent.

To be honest, I'm not seeing any difference between what GrandMasterFox said and what you just said right here. To me it looks like you two are saying the same thing, just different ways.

GrandMasterFox wrote:
Then OP needs to remember that the average player of this game is not that fluent in CS and might not understand the difference between 0 and Null.

I guess you could chalk me up as one of those people. First off, I don't even know what "CS" is, much less be fluent in it. Second, isn't 0 and a null value the same thing?
 
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Chris Lawson
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Thud105 wrote:
I guess you could chalk me up as one of those people. First off, I don't even know what "CS" is, much less be fluent in it. Second, isn't 0 and a null value the same thing?

I assume CS = Computer Science.

And, for many people, 0 and null are definably not the same
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Andrew Brown
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Thud105 wrote:

To be honest, I'm not seeing any difference between what GrandMasterFox said and what you just said right here. To me it looks like you two are saying the same thing, just different ways.
it's the difference between a card having Cost (which includes a potential cost of 0) or a card with No Cost at all (since no cost is listed on the Wound card)

a card with Cost 0, 1, 2, 3, etc. etc. fits into having a cost and can be referenced when 'Draw card with cost 2' or 'Draw card with cost 0 or 1'

a card with no cost isn't the same as Cost 0 and doesn't even fit into 'Cost 2 or less', 'Cost 0', etc.
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I understand the difference between cost 0 and no cost, but I still don't see why wounds having a cost is a problem. The only real example offered here is the Spiderman one, but it ignores the fact that recent Spiderman cards, along with everything else released since this change took place, were balanced around having wounds cost 0. I think its better to just leave well enough alone and play the game as the creators designed it.
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Mark Blasco

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By saying a wound costs 0, it standardizes things. When it has no cost, that can cause confusion to some people when referencing a cards cost. By saying it is at 0, there is no confusion.

I understand what the OP is saying, however, I feel that adding some clarity is more important than the rare situation in which that clarity may in fact help someone, and I'm sure the designers agreed. The game has advanced so much, having consensus on the value of a wound card alleviates any possible confusion for current and future cards.
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Ranger Rob
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To be honest. I've always played this wrong...thus making the game harder for me and my crew.

I've always counted Wounds as having No cost. Rather than Cost 0. Never looked it up, as it just seemed to make sense to me that without a Cost circle on the card...the card did not have a cost.

Thanks to this thread I'm corrected and my Legendary Experience just got a little easier. thumbsup
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Adam Steele
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RangerRob24 wrote:
To be honest. I've always played this wrong...thus making the game harder for me and my crew.

I've always counted Wounds as having No cost. Rather than Cost 0. Never looked it up, as it just seemed to make sense to me that without a Cost circle on the card...the card did not have a cost.

Thanks to this thread I'm corrected and my Legendary Experience just got a little easier. thumbsup


Yeah, and then Carnage happened...
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Chad Wallace
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
As said above, there are situations that refer to the cost of a card. Like Thanos for instance. His ability takes away a card of cost 1 or higher.

If you let him take a wound away, he becomes easier. There is a card (forgot which one) that lets you KO a card and then get attack\recruit based on its cost. You want wounds to give you more in that aspect?


I'm not saying I want the wound to cost more than 0. I would just prefer the wound to not have any cost. Therefore Thanos would still not be able to take the wound away and cards that grant extra attack/recruit would still grant 0 from a wound.


GrandMasterFox wrote:
Overall, the Spidey example really isn't that big of a deal. As mentioned, it will stop your chain anyway. So you still take something from it. But giving it any other number of cost could tip the scale in a lot of other situation.


Again, I'm not wanting to give the wound a cost other than zero, I want it to have no cost at all. In the Spidey example a wound with a cost of zero doesn't always stop the chain of drawing cards. If I have multiple Spidey cards (or other spider friends), I can draw the wound and then play another card to keep drawing, but if the wound had no cost, then once you top deck a wound it would completely stop the draw chain.

There are other times that a wound having a cost of zero actually helps you more than it hurts you. For example, the Punisher and Dr. Punisher cards that let you reveal a card and KO it if it costs 0. Don't get me wrong, I love hitting a wound with these kinds of cards, but I just think that a wound should hurt you more than it helps you (unless your Hulk).

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Chad Wallace
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Organous wrote:
RangerRob24 wrote:
To be honest. I've always played this wrong...thus making the game harder for me and my crew.

I've always counted Wounds as having No cost. Rather than Cost 0. Never looked it up, as it just seemed to make sense to me that without a Cost circle on the card...the card did not have a cost.

Thanks to this thread I'm corrected and my Legendary Experience just got a little easier. thumbsup


Yeah, and then Carnage happened...



Actually, Carnage doesn't trigger if he feasts on a wound. He only triggers if he feasts on a 0-COST HERO and while wounds do cost 0, they are not a hero.
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Mike Runnestrand
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I can't wrap my head around the fact that this is the most active thread on this board.
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