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Subject: Is there a way to counter this strategy ? rss

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Gaël Lequeux
France
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Hi,
We ran some game, and we foundthat produce/sell/consume mechanics seem really weak against explore/develop.
Every game is won buy someone hitting 12 cards as fast as possible.

So here is a strategy (4 players, main game only), is there any way to win a game against someone doing it (except extreme luck maybe) ?

Starting faction : Biological Adaptation
"Develop: All Reassign-power developments require one fewer developer to complete ( but no fewer than one)"

Techs : Each time you get a card, if it's a reassign tech, put it on tech side, else, put it on the colonize pile.

Explore : when you explore, always throw your non reassign cards (colonize pile).

Develop : try to develop the exact count you need for your tech to have all your dices available each turn.

If you had dices on produce or colonize, call them back in the cup at the end of the turn.

First turns :
Go explore, mix money and tech cards to quickly have good reassign powers.

Mid game :
You should have enough reassign power to do full explore or full develop turns. You should build 2 or 3 cards per develop turn at this point.

And there is no endgame because you hit 12

Bonus : If you got the 6+ tech with 1/2 pv for reassign tech you won with a monster score.


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It's a good strategy with that starting tile. But the player needs a lot of explored tiles to make it work, and will be predictably developing.

If someone's so predictable, the other players should:

1. Never call develop, always leech it

2. Call Explore only occasionally, and go in heavily when they do

3. Settle worlds and produce/consume off them, and/or leech one of the developments that makes pure settle viable
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Gaël Lequeux
France
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I forgot to mention that, by aligning all your dices in one column, you don't care if your opponents never call explore/dev. You only mix column if u are sure one of your opponent will call dev/explore (if he has no cards or if he have 4 dices on a tech)
 
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DarkCyrix wrote:
I forgot to mention that, by aligning all your dices in one column, you don't care if your opponents never call explore/dev. You only mix column if u are sure one of your opponent will call dev/explore (if he has no cards or if he have 4 dices on a tech)

The opponents are playing very badly if they're leaving 4 dice on a development vs. a dev spamming player with that faction. Likewise they need to be careful with their economy and not crash it to avoid telegraphing Explore - or, have a plan to make their credits back via trading instead of Exploring.

The point is to make sure the dev player has to call all their own phases and tick, tock through Explore, Develop in a mostly predictable way: then hopefully the other players can do good things *and* get a bit of explore/develop on the side by leeching the predictable player.
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Joe Casadonte
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Isn't that all hard to do with only your starting dice? If you want more dice you'll have to colonize at least a little bit.
 
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Gaël Lequeux
France
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Joe Casadonte wrote:
Isn't that all hard to do with only your starting dice? If you want more dice you'll have to colonize at least a little bit.


You only need 5 dices (to do the 6+ techs) and u start with 6. So you don't need more dices
You see so many tech cards that you regulary have tech that costs you 1 or 2

And as I said, you don't need the calls of the other players.
 
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Ryan Keane
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It depends on what's happening at the table. If several players are doing produce/ship, then the player racing to 12 devs may not have the winning score. You do have to find the Reassign devs, which is very luck dependent. It's also balanced by the fact that you need to spend a die to draw a tile.

For example, with the -1 to build reassign devs:
1-point dev costs 2 dice (1 to draw it + 1 to dev) = 0.5 points per die
2-point dev costs 2 dice (1 + 1) = 1 point/die
3-point dev costs 3 dice (1 + 2) = 1 point/die
....
But then you need to buy those dice back by spending half of an explore die, so it's really:
1-point dev = 0.33 points per die
2-point dev = 0.67 point/die
3-point dev = 0.67 point/die



Whereas a player that is producing/shipping:
1 vp for no matching (1 produce + 1 ship + 1 to buy back) = 0.33 points per die
2 vp for 1 match = 0.67 point/die
3 vp for 2 match = 1 point/die

That's assuming using explore to buy back. If the player is ideally using a yellow planet for trade (2 dice buy back 6):
1 vp consume = 0.37 point/die
2 vp consume = 0.75 point/die
3 vp consume = 1.12 point/die

The discount reassign dev race strategy is more fool-proof, but not as productive point-wise as long as the shipper can match at least 1 die every consume.
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Gaël Lequeux
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Ryan Keane wrote:

The discount reassign dev race strategy is more fool-proof, but not as productive point-wise as long as the shipper can match at least 1 die every consume.


Well that's interesting but, as you said, the odds of this going well seems really low IMHO.

1-You need to have the product/ship every turn (maybe forge an alliance ?)
2-You probably don't have any reassign powers that makes maintaining the PV stream extremely unlikely.
 
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Bruno Wolff
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DarkCyrix wrote:

1-You need to have the product/ship every turn (maybe forge an alliance ?)
2-You probably don't have any reassign powers that makes maintaining the PV stream extremely unlikely.

You don't need both produce and ship every turn. What this means is that even though the produce / ship strategy has better payoff per die, you will probably be using less dice per turn than someone with lots of reassign powers.
The produce / ship player will need to spend some time setting up, but so will the reassign player. Despite your claim of being able to execute the strategy with only your initial dice, that won't work for buying the few high priced reassign powers as it will take multiple explore turns to recover your dice if you do. Plus you will be using less dice per turn, reducing your scoring.
You also don't note that you are actually going to be paying a higher expore die cost per reassign development than indicated, since you aren't going to be able to get that close to 100% reassign devs even with multiple tries for misses. You can fall back to building some of these other tiles, but then you don't get the discount. Hopefully you get a good 6 dev or two that you can put out.
The reassign discount starting tile is good but that are some other good starting builder tiles. I particularly like getting $ for blue dice in citizenary during the development phase. With a bit of luck, once you are set up you can spend the last several turns building developments and getting most or all of your dice back each turn.
 
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