$30.00
Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
25 Posts

Key to the City – London» Forums » General

Subject: 2p vs Keyflower rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Lior A
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
Well, is Key to the city a better 2p game than Keyflower?

I really love Keyflower, and while a lot of people think it is a good 2p game, it is in fact not. It plays super fast, not many meaningful decisions, not much tension, no competition, it is almost a solo game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathue Faulk
United States
Cedar Park
TX
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
Well, is Key to the city a better 2p game than Keyflower?

I really love Keyflower, and while a lot of people think it is a good 2p game, it is in fact not. It plays super fast, not many meaningful decisions, not much tension, no competition, it is almost a solo game.

That's not a fact. Those are opinions. IMO it's a great 2p game, but I can see how that would depend on play styles and preferences.
37 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
Well, is Key to the city a better 2p game than Keyflower?

I really love Keyflower, and while a lot of people think it is a good 2p game, it is in fact not. It plays super fast, not many meaningful decisions, not much tension, no competition, it is almost a solo game.


No tension?!? No competition!?! So which one of you lets the other player get all the good tiles?

2-player Keyflower, for us, is extremely tense in the auctions (fighting over tiles) and in the screwage of using each others' buildings with workers we know that person doesn't have a lot of. I guess the tension lies more in the play style of the players.
25 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CycyX
France
Magny en Vexin
Val d'Oise
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Some people think it is not a good 2p game because it plays super fast, as not many meaningful decisions, not much tension, no competition and feels like a solo game.

It is not the case, it is an excellent 2p game...

See what I did?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lior A
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
It is simple. In a 2p game each player has his own agenda (winter tiles) and this removes a lot of the confrontation for tiles. Plus, it is much easier to count meeples and knowing the status of your adversary.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ode.
Germany
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Badigel wrote:

I really love Keyflower, and while a lot of people think it is a good 2p game, it is in fact not. It plays super fast, not many meaningful decisions, not much tension, no competition, it is almost a solo game.


Well, in fact it is a great 2 player game. Many meaningful decisions, much tension, much competition for the tiles (actually this is a very crucial point in the game), and a tendency to be a multiplyer solitaire (but not more like in plays with 3-6 players).

I actually prefer the game with less players, because waiting time is shorter so I can actually play instead of sit around and watch other people think.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ode.
Germany
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
It is simple. In a 2p game each player has his own agenda (winter tiles) and this removes a lot of the confrontation for tiles. Plus, it is much easier to count meeples and knowing the status of your adversary.


To me this analysis is not enough. Yes, you can count meeples. But why should that remove tension? And the confrontation on the winter tiles is also there. Crucial to not let the other player get the most important tile for his play!

Actually I find this game to finally be a really good two player game with auctions. You don't have that too much. This game is really great in this point!
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ozzy perez
United States
Hialeah
Fl
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbazler wrote:
Badigel wrote:
Well, is Key to the city a better 2p game than Keyflower?

I really love Keyflower, and while a lot of people think it is a good 2p game, it is in fact not. It plays super fast, not many meaningful decisions, not much tension, no competition, it is almost a solo game.


No tension?!? No competition!?! So which one of you lets the other player get all the good tiles?

2-player Keyflower, for us, is extremely tense in the auctions (fighting over tiles) and in the screwage of using each others' buildings with workers we know that person doesn't have a lot of. I guess the tension lies more in the play style of the players.



I agree with this! Our 2p games have never ever lacked any tension. My partner and I are enemies when we play and we never let games take us on the path of a multi solitaire, so maybe that's why. But Keyflower isn't a multi solitaire. Imo there's often a need to interact because the better plays lie within that.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel
United States
Orange
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wow, my 30+ two player games have all been a lie! I thought I was having a blast with my favorite game, but it was, in fact, really a bad game. Hot damn, now I've got so much more time to go play really fun two player games. Thanks!!
19 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lior A
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
I guess you all must be playing another game...

This can also be proven by people saying they want a shorter game. My 5p game usually take an hour. That's A LOT less than any other game I can think of in this weight category.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Broadbent
United States
Covington
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
It is simple. In a 2p game each player has his own agenda (winter tiles) and this removes a lot of the confrontation for tiles. Plus, it is much easier to count meeples and knowing the status of your adversary.

This first statement is true at whatever player count. The second will vary strongly between players.
The designers have commented that they almost exclusively played it as a 2 player game and is how they still prefer to play.
I'm sorry it doesn't work for you and your gaming partner.
To your original question, I'm not sure who could answer that - the game hasn't been released, and your experience seems to be different from others playing Keyflower. You might want to wait to play the game before buying if you're concerned.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
"Music That Glows In The Dark"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Considering Keyflower is amazing with two I don't see how this game will be any different.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Ruf
United States
Acworth
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Considering Keyflower is amazing with two I don't see how this game will be any different.


Famous last words maybe?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CycyX
France
Magny en Vexin
Val d'Oise
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
I guess you all must be playing another game...

This can also be proven by people saying they want a shorter game. My 5p game usually take an hour. That's A LOT less than any other game I can think of in this weight category.


Usually, my 3p last 45 to 60 minutes. Around 90 minutes with 5 players...

I guess it's most playing style/players rather than the game itself.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
"Music That Glows In The Dark"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
I guess you all must be playing another game...



or you're playing this one wrong. whistle
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom
United States
Plainfield
ILLINOIS
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Its a fact some people think mole is a creature that burrows underground instead of a delicious sauce.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathue Faulk
United States
Cedar Park
TX
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
I guess you all must be playing another game...

This can also be proven by people saying they want a shorter game. My 5p game usually take an hour. That's A LOT less than any other game I can think of in this weight category.

I don't follow this logic at all.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler DeLisle
United States
Dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
It is simple. In a 2p game each player has his own agenda (winter tiles) and this removes a lot of the confrontation for tiles. Plus, it is much easier to count meeples and knowing the status of your adversary.


Which creates the tension of, "How much should I spend of my own resources to stop the other person from getting that tile they need? Is it worth me getting it so that I can profit from their meeples?" In my 2 player game there is a bloody battle for those winter tiles at the end.

The only complaint I've heard about 2-player with Keyflower, that seems valid, is that not enough tiles come out so many winter tiles may be rendered useless. The expansion with contracts fixes that.

The tension and competition is always there. With every action I take in Keyflower, 2 player or otherwise, I'm worried about what my opponents might do, what spots they might place a green worker, whether or not they'll use one of my tiles and throw off my plans.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
"Music That Glows In The Dark"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Keyflower is also one of the best "bidding games" for two as well.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Hayashida
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
It plays super fast, not many meaningful decisions, not much tension, no competition, it is almost a solo game.


I'm curious about your playstyle.

* Do you ever bid on tiles to deny your opponent points?
* Or run up the bids to make tiles they want more costly?
* Do you look at your opponent's village to see what they're trying to do (and then attempt to foil their strategy)?

As a two-player game, this is one of a few that gets my blood pressure up. I actually get mad at my opponent for using a green meeple. (In a "it's a game, but I'm mad at you for doing that" sort of way).

To me, because of the above, Keyflower feels much more tense than Race for the Galaxy or Dominion.

It's also possible I have mean friends.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cory Yates
United States
Pekin
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played over 250 2 player exclusive games of Keyflower. Lacking tension is the last thing that should come out of someone. Playing for YOUR winter goals is one strategy...OR you can completely ignore your tiles...put out one trash winter tile and score points by moving resources, pursuing the other player's winter tiles, or cutting your opponents throat by taking the one tile they desperately need. I actually think it probably plays best with 2 due to the amount of control you have in the strategy you pursue.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jimmie Jones
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
Of course I cant say for sure which one will be better seeing as I have not played Key to the city of London but here is my 2 cents. I love Keyflower and even at 2 player, I don't agree with your estimation of it. However if you find Keyflower an unenjoyable 2 player game I doubt you will enjoy this game more, here are my reasons. No green meeples, this is an area that adds tension in keyflower to either get locked out of a tile due to not having green or locking someone out of a tile. No tiles giving you more meeple's, Again this is another strategy that you can work for or bid on to not allow your opponent to get. And not having the transport tiles, if someone gets these and especially if the x2 tile comes up that is huge. Those 3 areas create allot of tension in bidding I find. Also now allowing unlimited placements of meeples on a tile means you can no longer lock out an opponents tile. However though my wife likes Keyflower she is kind of a care bear and the removal of these things I think will help get this game to the table more.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonas Åkerblom
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have played Key to the City with 3 players and that was not good and I cannot imagine it being better with 2, in fact I think it is even worse. The problem is that there is 10 tiles coming out the first two rounds with 2 players and that means that both will get 5 each and no real biddings will occur because both will get what they want for similar strategies.

I was very disappointed with the game in total and that being sad from a person loving Keyflower. I don´t think I ever will play this over Keyflower.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Magic Pink
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
I guess you all must be playing another game...


Ah, the "Everyone ELSE Must Be Wrong" defense.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler DeLisle
United States
Dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Badigel wrote:
It is simple. In a 2p game each player has his own agenda (winter tiles) and this removes a lot of the confrontation for tiles. Plus, it is much easier to count meeples and knowing the status of your adversary.


Hate to beat a dead horse, but I stumbled back into this thread and had to make another point. There's actually a variant that I've been using, in one of the expansions, where any "public" meeples remain public all game long. This eliminates the need to count meeples because it's all visible (except for new meeples drawn directly from the bag). This is actually considered an advanced variant because having that knowledge public enhances the mean-ness. Now you can see that your opponent has 6 of a color and know to throw a meeple on one of their tiles to throw a wrench in their capabilities. Now you know that you can effectively block a tile they need with minimum investment.

My point in saying that is that knowledge of meeples is considered something that enhances the tough decisions and inter-activeness of the game. Obviously it didn't work for you, and that's fine, but I think it has more to say about the play style of you and the person you were playing with than the game itself, but the 2 player game is also enhanced with the expansion that adds contracts and upgrades.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.